Romney Defends His Religious Beliefs

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You are lucky that you live in Eastern Canada. From my experience, the Mormons from Utah and Alberta are the worst kind. The Mormons from Alberta come here en masse twice a year (guess why), and you can almost slice their "holier-than-thou" attitude with a knife! The coolest Mormons (that might be an oxymoron...) come from California.

But this entire post is So I'll shut up now.

 

Gnarff, lack of time is always your excuse for not doing the most basic research. In this case, it would have taken you typing 12 letters into Google and hitting 'search' (in fact, you could have hit 'I'm Feeling Lucky'). Any of the first 10 or so references would have given you the information -- which you could have read in the amount of time it took for you to get on your 'I've-never-heard-of-that-so-prove-you're-right' soapbox. I am well aware of the time requirements for services at a Mormon church (as well as additional meetings for leaders) -- and to me (having been there, done that) it is not an acceptable excuse for laziness.

I noticed you glazed over the entire issue of the Mormons believing the Prophet speaks directly with God -- this would include Romney (especially since he has personally known at least four Prophets, perhaps six). How does a faithful Mormon turn down a request from the Prophet, especially if the Prophet states the request came in a 'revelation?'

All other aspects of a Mormon is office is just fine to me. I like the morals and ethics taught by the Mormon church. I like the strong family-based beliefs. I just don't like the idea of someone claiming to be God's spokesperson on earth having influence on the President of the United States.

 

Being a Jew, I know that I will have to put up with a "Jesus Lover". To me, it makes no difference Catholic, Mormon, Protestant, etc. they are all the same to me.

However, I do feel bad for the guy, for having to justify his faith.

 

Actually, based on the first question I posted in the thread, is it fair to call Mormon's Jesus lovers? Do they believe in the divinity of Christ? I imagine with several current and former members of the LDS on this board, any of them should be able to give a definitive answer on this.

 

Er, yes. It's just they also believe a whole bunch of other things as well.

 

Yes, Mormons believe in the divinity of Christ. They look at the Book of Mormon as a second testiment of Jesus Christ.

The Mormon view of the Godhead (trinity) and the belief that men can become as God, are what usually pegs them as non-Christians. The basic beliefs of the Mormon church are simply stated in the Articles of Faith, written by Joseph Smith.

 

Mormons believe in Jesus Christ just like every other Christian faith. They believe in the typical Xmas story as told in one of the chapters of the bible…John IIRC… Once JC was older, he healed the sick, fed the poor, raised the dead, and that he suffered and died to redeem man's sins...and then a few days later, he was resurrected. They also believe that before he ascended to heaven, he made a pit stop in the South/Central Americas to grab some killer Aztec enchiladas…you just can’t get spice like that in Israel you know...

So in short - JC is central to the Mormon faith...just like every other Christian faith.

Damn...Bruno beat me to it.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 134:9 expressly forbids the Prophet from doing that.

Now I trust you could have just as quickly found that and provided a link for us (seeing as I had to look up the passage in my Doctrine and Covenants and typre out the verse I wanted). You wouldn't do that because it would contradict your rant about a Mormon in the White House being a bad thing...

 

I fail to understand what whether Mormons are Christian or not has to do with Romney's qualifications or lack of qualifications for being President of the United States of America. I was not aware that one of the necessary qualifications for being President was being "Christian". I've read the Constitution within the last year and do not recall seeing that stated any where.

As for speaking directly for God has anyone heard of the Pope? The President is sworn to uphold the Constitution and it is not easy to change our Constitution. And please let's not get off into argument about what current or past presidents have done or not done.

We've had this argument regarding who is or is not a Christian. I do not believe that Jesus is divine but consider myself a Christian. I believe in the teachings of Jesus and follow them to the best of my ability. IMO arguing about this.

Is Romney qualified or isn't he?

 

Hmmm, I thought my rant was against you Gnarff....

Joseph Smith was running for President of the United States when he was killed and Brigham Young was territorial Governor of Utah. Both of those clearly go against your quote -- I guess it was interpreted differently by Smith and Young. As I said before, the only thing I am hesitant about with Romney is the influence one religious leader has over him -- which I believe is orders of magnitude greater than with any other candidate in history (except Smith, of course).

Nakia (or perhaps someone else), I thought the pope received 'divine inspiration' which, while quite significant, is not the same as face-to-face chat over coffee (or cocoa for Mormons).

Is he qualified? Yes. Will I vote for him? Only if Hillary is on the other ticket.

 

We really are getting of topic here but, no, T2Bruno, 'Divine Inspiration' is not the same as "Papal Infallibility". If you want to research further look here

 

I'm with Nakia on this. I don't think the man's religion qualifies or disqualifies him from being fit for president. I don't understand the importance people put on this. I think that people's fears that Romney will be controlled by the Mormon church are unfounded. According to the scripture that Gnarff threw out (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9), I read that to mean it can't happen. Romney's religion is only an issue because it is not a traditional Christian religion. Some people can't get over that for whatever reason.

Unfortunately, it seems that people are caught up in judging candidates based on fear and hate. To give you an idea of how pervasive this bigotry is, I was reading an online article in Newsweek (I think) about a combat nurse who served in Afghanistan and went on to win the crown of Miss Utah. Rather interesting, I thought. Following the article, someone said "I hope she wins if she's not Mormon." I had to laugh. This poster's "this person is great except for my standing bias against all people of a certain religion" mentality was just so ignorant and stupid.

 

I think that, when a candidate doesn't respect the importance of separation of church and state, his religion most assuredly is fair game. Romney made quite clear how little he respects the importance of separation of church and state when he said "Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom....Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone." Sure, maybe he was just pandering to evangelicals (as politicians often do) and didn't mean it that way, but we don't know that. What we do know is what he said.

 

Drew, your comment requires a discussion of what "separation of church and state" actually is, but that is a topic for another thread.

Because he is running for public office does not bar him from mentioning religion, nor is he in danger of violating the First Amendment by doing so. Your argument that because he mentioned religion (in general, I might add) his personal religion is open to scrutiny does not ring true. Perhaps if he had said "Freedom requires my religion just as my religion requires freedom....Freedom and the Mormon religion endure together, or perish alone", then you would have a case.

 

Not necessarily Giles - what does that comment say to non-religious people? It is not infringing on 1st Amendment right to SAY that, but if he is elected and believes that, it certainly would be infringing on 1st Amendment rights to act on that belief.

But to answer the previous question by Nakia, while it is true that whether or not Mormons qualify as Christians have nothing to do with Romney's qualifications to be President, a person's religion is a very important factor in whether or not people will vote for you. One of the big reasons why Bush won two terms in office is largely due to winning the overwhelming majoirty of the evangelical Christian vote. So while a person's religion in no way disqualifies him from the Presidency from a legal point a view, if a large segment of the population refuse to vote for someone of a particular religion, then it disqualifies them in practice.

To put it another way, Romney is running for the Republican nomination. 30% of the population are evangelicals, and since they tend to vote overwhelmingly Republican, it is fair to say that they represent far more than 30% of registered Republican voters. If Romney loses out on that segment of the voting public because he's a Mormon - and only if it is because he's Mormon, and not a more traditional Christian (like one of the more popular Protestant sects or Catholic) - then he will in practice be disqualified from the presidency because of his religion.

 

Not necessarily. Was Joseph Smith planning a platform of enforcing Chruch standards on the entire nation? I'm going to demand a link on that before you may have that point. I know he attempted a run for office and dies before the election. Brigham Young was the overwhelming choice for Governor of Utah, perhaps his position as Prophet did give him a popularity boos with the majority of the population (most of which were there because they weren't welcome anywhere else), but again, Did the territory enforce Church doctrine or was administrator of the territory just his "job" that he did to support his many wives (many were widows from one report) and allegedly over 50 children? You have to have a high paying job to support that many dependents...

It's not his religion, but the fact that so much inaccurate information about the church is in front of the public (especially that Evangelical block) that would be skewering his chances in that case.

 

I agree with Gnarfflinger on this. Although this may a be a case of Semantics.

It may well be that there are people who would vote for him if he were not a Mormon but would he be what he is if he were not Mormon? Lack of understanding of religions is common. Some religions are more misunderstood than others but it is a rare person who even tries to understand religious beliefs that are different from their own.

 

I've heard it argued--persuasively--that the only reason Romney has a chance is because there's so much misinformation about his religion.

 

I think, as Nakia suggests, you're making a semantic point. It doesn't matter if an evangelical has a good reason or not for not voting for a Mormon - it only matters whether or not they will vote for him. If they don't because they disagree with the Mormon religion, he's effectively being denied a fair shake because of the religion he follows.

Who knows? I'm inclined to say he would be, as I do not see Mormonism as THAT much different from other forms of Christianity. That actually brings me to my next point - you'd think that the evangelicals would LIKE some of the things that Romney talks about. He's one of few of the major canidates that are pro-life. He also opposes same sex marriages. Those are two major things evangelicals should like about him. I truly believe it is due to misinformation about the Mormon religion. The most obvious bit of misinformation out there without a doubt is a lot of people believe that all Mormons practice polygamy, which is simply false.

 

By the same token, how many people are aware that there's a guy in SLC with a direct line to God (sorry for levity, Gnarff)? Or that, AIUI, everyone of us can become God of our own universe? The Catholics think the Mormons are like the Evangelicals, and vice versa. They're both mistaken. There's a reason Romney doesn't want to discuss his specific beliefs, and the reason is that voters would not like them if they understood them.