The prisons are full

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From the Daily Mail

I always thought this is why Australia was created

On a more serious note, this is becoming more of a problem every day. I know here in Massachusetts, USA for awhile we were shipping our inmates to other states that had extra capacity. I thought it was a brilliant idea, as renting a cell has to be cheaper then building new jails. However, the lawsuits started to pile up as family members were upset that they couldn't visit their "felons" and then the inmates started to sue that the conditions weren't what they wanted. I'm not even sure we do this anymore.

It just dawned on me, considering we are outsourcing all of our jobs to India anyway, maybe we can outsource our jails too?

 

End the War on Drugs, problem solved.

Of course, since prohibition was such a brilliant success the first time around, maybe we should continue the WoD.

 

America could outsource their prisons to Iraq, Uganda, Cuba or China, and then insist they hire some expert Iraqi, Ugandan, Cuban or Chinese jailers, adding to the deterrent effect. Everybody will be scared ****less to be sent to such a hell hole. The aspect of likely prisoner abuse will be settled by the market - rising and or sinking demand will determine the intensity of abuse. Best, as we have learned from the current administration about Guantanamo - they're offshore, that is outside US soil, and thus, outside US jurisdiction, hehe

Personally, I find the mere idea of having 'a prison market' and private businesses providing jails and earn money that way just creepy, and such a scheme is probably conceivable only in America.

In my view the American prison complex is an abomination. How was that, more people in jail in the US than in China that has three times the population? I doubt that the sentencing practice in the US is such a great idea, or effective.

 

Stop trying to confuse the issue with facts. Facts have no place on the internet.

 

I admit, I was being a stinker, by not directly mentioning that the article was about the UK. I got the responses I was expecting

I think it is an interesting dillema though. What do you do when your society is overrun with people who won't follow the rules of your society. Who is wrong, the people or the society?

I would hate to be the person to have to decide who gets let out early to make room for someone else. I believe the article

mentioned that a murder has already been committed because of this. How must the families feel, when justice is ignored?

As to Ragusa's comment. He may be on to something. If right now prison isn't something to be feared, maybe we need to "uncivilize" it a little bit. I know for me, the thought of going to prison is terrible. I know there is no way I would survive. For others who don't think that way, maybe it is time to make them. There is an old saying "If you do the crime, you do the time." Judging by the situaion in the UK, that doesn't seem to be true anymore. If criminals think they can "do the crime, and not do the time" doesn't that just make them bolder? I know in his heart Ragusa didn't really mean it, but I like how he is thinking "outside the box" (pun intended).

As to the China stat, that is probably because the Chinese know it is cheaper and easier to just put a bullet into a head.

 

If the objective is to make prisons Super Suck so as to encourage people to obey the law, okay. Except then you either need to never let prisoners out again, or invest heavily in mandatory therapy and counseling.

You don't stick people in Hell for seven years and expect them to emerge productive members of society.

As for 'is society wrong or are the people wrong', you're asking the wrong question. The correct question is whether the benefits of a given law and enforcement policy outweigh the drawbacks. When it comes to The War on Drugs, the answer is obvious.

 

Possible solutions:

1: Capital Punishment. Only for the most extreme of crimes, but it does free up room for one or more prisoners (In Canada, we have one specific prisoner who's in isolation for his own protection, and will never be released. You could house dozens of prisoners in the area he's confined to if you just string him up).

2: Building more prisons. This will increase the capacity available to incarcerate prisoners who deserve it. It will also increase the demand for corrections officers, creating more jobs.

3: Look at alternatives to incarceration. Not every person who commits a crime deserves to be locked up. If there is an alternative that will enable them to pay their debt to society while being rehabilitated, then that should be explored.

 

There is your problem. Specifically the "Inmates started to sue that the conditions weren't what they wanted" If they dont like the conditions, then don't commit the crime, simple. Seriously, why on earth should they be given the conditions they want?

 

I'm not sure if you are speaking of MA in particular or the US in general. I can say, however that the state of Arizona does this. We've got dudes in Indiana and Oklahoma and had some in Texas up until a few years ago. As far as the lawsuits and such go, I think that making accommodations for the comfort and benefit of inmates is absolutely, patently ridiculous. Such is the litigious society that we live in.

 

A few suggestions:

1.) Make the only available form of official entertainment in jails be the library, and stock the library with lots of books that have higher than an 8th grade reading level. No excercize equipment except jogging and working.

2.) Make sure all the food in jails is healty, nutritious, and absolutely tasteless.

3.) Take a serious, hard look at the conditions in society that are causing these people to turn to crime in the first place. Are these people just meanies who beat on the weak to get what they want, or are they starving mothers of 3 children trying to survive? Address the original problem, and you'll have fewer criminals to contain.

 

I'm not exactly keen on 1, as it's darned hard to reverse if the system has, you know, messed up. As for the others, sure. BTW, do prisoners in the UK and US work? I think there was at least an option for most light-duty prisoners here, and it has its uses - it offers prisoners a way to get some small change, may give them work experience, provides some money for the prison and cheap-ish labor force for low-training jobs. It's not a panacea, but it can help bring the costs down and maybe even improve efficiency.

As for 3... I'm not sure on the options for low-level crimes. I mean, there's fine, imprisonment, and/or community service... What else?


Of course, that kind of thing has an history of really getting out of hand if you're not careful. I don't want 1943 Germany work camps, ok?

 

Brilliant! And how about China as well? Put the poor sods to work in a tube sock factory. Globalization is good for all of us!

 

Some of this kind of thing is done in some states, but it is not done nearly enough.

 

I'm sure it varies greatly from state to state, but here in Maryland, non-violent first time in jail offenders can actually keep their current job while serving their term! I was unaware of this until I served on a grand jury about two years ago. They put one of those tracking bracelets around your ankle so you can't bolt, and instead of going home to the wife and kids at the end of the day, you go back to prison.

 

Death sentences to all!!! *raving psychotic smilie here*

Putting people into jails is a booming business. One that the governments have their fingers stuck in deep, I might add. Think of all the people going out of jobs if you quit the war on drugs...

I'd be humane about criminals, three strikes and lobotomize them. Most of the people in jails are first-time offenders though...nah, just lobotomize all of them. Or perform a frontal lobe leucotomy, which isn't quite the same as lobotomizing. We need more drooling zombies, yup. But it'd be more cost efficient to perform radical surgery...I know! Human guinea pigs! Let's start doing questionable medical research on the prisoners! Yay!

Sometimes it seems we're only one single step away from totalitarian fascism...

 

New Zealand has glaciers? Really great big glaciers like you see in Alaska, Canada and Greenland? I never knew!

 

2 of them iirc. Franz Josef and Fox. Iku, hold back on the sarcasm... You seem to be blowing this a tad out of proportion.

 

Yeah, I just saw that bit on the Impressive/cool videos about how to behave in an internet forum and gee-whiz, that previous post of mine was goshdarn too close a hitler/nazi-argument. Not good. My bad.

On a serious note however, I am worried about how the legislation in western countries and enforcing the law is getting harder on the regular folk once again. Fortunately there hasn't been that much police brutality these days, but there's been far too many cases of excessive force and there's always reason to be concerned when a government gives more liberties to law-enforcement officials. It's a small surprise if the prisons are full if what was once a misdemeanor makes you a felon these days. More control is not a good thing and neither are harsher punishments. If everyone's a suspect, it'll easily lead to finding more people to put into jails than you'd ever want to.