Relationship Rant Thread #5

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Looks like you've avoided a total trainwreck there, bro.

 

That's only insufficient talking skills on my part, not the picture itself.

Who doesn't?

Of course.

Work hard play hard is good, but I do find community work or charity work or giving attractive. I find them special when they don't cut it at pay and exchange.

 

I sure as hell don't. Then again, I'm a selfish bastard from hell, so...

And as for attitude/edge... I strongly doubt we have the same definition, chevy chase. Like I said, what you want is worlds apart from what I want,

 

There is always the option of finding a spunky community/charity worker. I wish...

But I do know pretty hardcore social workers, which would definitely fit your bill bro, if they'd be a few years younger and a few pounds lighter

 

I'd just flip off (read: double barrel gun salute) a chick who does community work or charity work. This is a utter waste of time, and not even getting paid? Time is money, and if you don't bring the money, then don't waste my time.

Let me put this crystal clear - I want a chick who is a selfish bitch from hell. I already am a selfish bastard from hell, so 1+1=2.

I want a chick who will not be afraid to put me in check when I cross the line, and one with enough guts to blatantly flip me off if the need ever arises. I want a black sheep, not a part of the flock. I want a chick for thinks for herself, not one who thrives on the crap the mainstream vomits down the sheep's throats. I want a chick with an anarchist streak, one who's not afraid to flip off the authority and break the rules when either of the two infringe our freedom.

Oh, yeah, extra points for a LVS.

Does that look similar to what you want, chevvy chase?

 

Disciple, with the kind of girl you describe, you're probably in for a relationship that will be a ride you'll never forget. However, I don't think that such a ride has a destination. Without brakes, someone usually gets hurt, and it won't neccessarily be her.
Unless you are looking for a passing fling, the picture you paint has no future.
And even without marriage, kids and all, imho, you are looking for an emotional relationship with someone, not a fling.

Chevalier's picture of a girl is pure gold, on the other side. Like Decados pointed out, honour, integrity, honesty are desirable traits.

So yes, under the hellspawn facade, I do believe you and chev are looking for the same thing. You simply want those things in a different setting.

 

GOD I can't wait for next weekend when we leave Salamanca. I'll be able to travel around and she'll be going back to the U.S so I wont have to see her anymore.

Ugh, I still don't know how stuff just fizzled out like that. It was there, and then it wasn't. Not like I was looking for an actual relationship, that would have been silly. But I thought I'd have my European love affair type of thing for a month. ARGH, so pretty too.

 

Oh, please.

Just because someone can stand up for themselves, has a bit of attitude and doesn't take crap from anybody doesn't mean all they're good for is a fling.

He's hardly asking for a massive slut who needs attention constantly and lies through her teeth. Such a horrific image is the opposite of both Disciples and Chevs images.

Someone who stays and is loyal because of respect and genuine affection and passion rather than a sense of duty and security and love drawn from courtly romance. Someone who has honour born from their own drive and personal passion than passion and motivation from ideals or scripture. Someone who's tongue can simultaneously chop wood and be as blunt as being smacked with a wardrobe rather than ambiguous statements and protocl enforced by polite society. Someone who can give themselves in love and trust to another, and defend those they care about, but will not put themselves in a position where another could abuse or take advantage of them, someone who puts themselves first, sure, but would not simply abandon a friend.

One mans gold...

I can perfectly understand what Chev is saying about parts of an ideal girl, if nothing else I've been around when discussions have happened in other threads and the chatroom

I can also see the coloured glass that fundamentally changes what both Chev and Disciple. Even though I've probably got the details largely fuzzy, I can get the idea.

Kitty gotta have claws!

 

That's not what I said, 8. You've missed my point, or I haven't phrased it right.

Constant battle isn't perfect. It tires all involved.

But I'm not here to argue, with anyone, on anything.

 

And where to battles and arguments come into this?

Neither of them have mentioned battles or arguments at all. Perhaps you could quote where it was mentioned on the past couple of pages because I may have simply missed it.

 

I meant: battle between the two halves from hell, in a relationship, 8. I believe that would qualify as battle. This is my belief that's all.

I don't mean chev and Disciple, at all, and I didn't say that.

 

Oh ho, looks like I missed a bit of fun here. I'll rectify that and pitch in.

First, I'll get something off my chest. 8peeps, I absolutely freaking love you. I'm litteraly slack-jawed, you've described what I want in a gal even better than I ever could. Then again, I'm not too good at expressing my thoughts, one perks of being a strong introvert, I guess.

Now, to the buisness at hand. From what I have seen in the last pages, it seems the debate about what defines a dream gal is split between two stereotypical camps - chevvy chase and Lore preaching 'good' gals, while 8peeps and myself are preaching 'bad' girls.

'Good' gals aren't always snow white perfect for marriage, a mortgage, working 9-5 and 2,2 kids, and 'bad' gals aren't always totally messed up bitches who aren't good for anything but a passionate fling. Hell, my most succesful relationship up to now was with a chick which is prefectly portrayed with what 8peeps described - a 'bad' girl, in stereotypical terms. Sure, it wasn't always a picnic (I'll get to fights and arguments later on), and while I honestly say we have had pretty rough periods, it was absolutely worth it and if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it in a heartbeat, because I regret NOTHING.

As for fights and arguments. What I am about to say will probably once again fall in the stereotype of good girl vs bad girl. Fights and arguments are a part of relationships, and anyone who tells the opposite is lying to themselves. Fights and arguments are seen as bad, and I'll have to disagree. A fight/arguments is sometimes healthy for a relationship. I'd rather have a HUGE fight with my (hypothetical) gal that would make us face and work through the demons of our relationship (been there, done that) than someone who would just lay down in front of me, suck it up and keep telling everything is fine. (Also been there, done that)

I loved 8's 'one man's gold' counter, and I agree with heartily. While what chev wants might have underlying similarity with what I want, his picture of a 'perfect' gal just doesen't do it for me, just like my picture wouldn't do it for him. And while we're on the topic of chev... I can pretty much say there has been a fallout between the two of us, for a reason I do not want to discuss in public. I'll just say it's too bad it had to be this way.

Life isn't always black and white.

Amen to that!

 

I'd be happy to find a girl who doesn't stomp my heart in the dirt...But since I seem to be a psycho-chick and a crazygirl magnet, and since they end up going more funny in the head the longer they spend time with me, finding a decent girl not messed up like that is a luxury I can't afford.

God lord the things I've ended up hearing. A lot of girlies I hook up with have a need to pour their bleeding heart on me and sometimes it's almost too much. I'm a pair of crutches, they need someone to lean on and they lean on me. They look for support and I'll give it to them up to a point and when they get crazier or stronger I get ditched.

Boo-hoo, that's pretty much all I can give. To be used for a while. To boost their egoes or just be there, usable, available, but only for a brief while they need me to be there. Sometimes I feel I'm a small trainstop of love. Waiting for the 4am to stop for more than few minutes. But they only stay there longer if accidents happen, a train crash, or when someone gets run over.

edit: This melancholy trip was provided by a stroll down the memory lane to lay some flowers on the grave of the past. My ex's old man died three years ago and that caused a lot of bad karma. Buddhist funeral rites are interesting enough. Let's see if I managed to bury a little more of that karma today...Tomorrow it'll be a +3 rose of gratitude and adoration for the lady from whom I bought the flowers for the grave. Let's see how that goes...hehe...

 

I agree with the first statement, less so with the others. An argument is most certainly good if (and only if) it helps you clear a specific problem/disagreement and move forward. The key word here is "sometimes"; a frightfully large number of arguments are there just for the sake of having an argument, because one person (both in most cases) don't want to deal directly with the real problem in the relationship and prefer to pick the excuse of the day to argue over instead (I've seen it happen far too often, and admit I've been guilty of this as well). As for having a huge fight, if it's got to this point without going through "let's deal with the problem before it gets to this stage" then the relationship is in big trouble anyway, and while the fight may end up patching matters (temporarily) it may just as well lead to a irrepairable damage or on-the-spot breaking up (which may or may not be a bad thing at that point). Do also keep in mind that repeating "everything is fine" when it obviously isn't will inevitably lead to the bubble bursting and a big fight anyway, so I wouldn't consider it as another alternative so much as a variation on the same theme.

 

A summer storm is there to clear the air so that fairer weather can continue. Likewise an argument can just be there so both parties can let off a little steam and make up afterwards with a clearer attitude.

Storms at the wrong time or the wrong place however... that's when the damage occurs. In that case it can go one of three ways, the couple can repair the damage done and move on together, they can leave the damage there as a memorial and never truly move on. Or the most dangerous is to just patch up over the issue, covering it up with smiles and false pleasantries while still seething under the surface.

If an argument leads to the piont where one or the other cannot move on and repair the relationship fully, then say goodnight anyway. Resentment will build up on both sides and it will colour everything that they've shared, good or bad.

On the flip side, sometimes the biggest fights are actually the better ones (bear with me ) sometimes it takes a big argument to actually get people to say what they really feel and think. Sometimes it takes the big ones to actually GET SOMETHING DONE rather than bickering constantly as prt of a routine. Also the biggest ones can lead to the breakups, which if it's got to the stage a big argument is the way it occurs it's more likely to be a relief on both parties in at least a subconcsious respect.

I'll disagree that an argument 'should' be about a specific problem. If both people have been having a crap time then sometimes having a shout and growl is best. Otherwise it will just end up in snapping and curt conversation for a week

Saying this I rarely get into arguments With Sal our arguments are usually based on we're both damned stubborn and certain foods make him a grumpy sod Otherwise only arguments occured with first boyfriend because I was fed up of being pushed around.

 

DoTW, you don't want an utter selfish person. From what you have said so far, it shows you want someone reasonably mature and dependable. Someone who will act like an adult and who will stick to her loyalties. You don't want (in the long term at least) someone who will cheat on you and leave you.

Also, I too value a critical, sober and inquisitive mind - I'm an academic, after all. Anarchistic? I believe in order, but not in oppression. As a lawyer, I appreciate the character to dispense with a norm which conflicts with higher norms or even common sense.

But so far as definitions go, I want an unselfish person. By this I don't mean a lack of human weaknesses or lack of regard for own feelings or considerations. But yes, someone who will go out of her way to help people, who will not remember every grudge, who will not take long to forgive, who will be understanding of human weaknesses. Who will look to others' safety before her own, who will think of her friends or charges before herself. Someone with a sense of duty.

 

8people, I'll have to admit you've actually convinced me (no easy feat ) and have phrased my own opinions far better than I had.

However I sort of (not entirely though) agree with chev, specifically when in the last post he says "DoTW, you don't want an utter selfish person". Now it may be that both chev and I are completely misunderstanding your (DotW's) point, but it does seem to me from your description (as well as 8people's reiteration of it a few posts back) that you are not looking for a "selfish bitch from hell" but for a woman who's got enough self-confidence to know where she's going (though this did seem to contradict something you said you were not looking for, namely the career-oriented type) and what she wants. About the only selfishness you expect from her is when people other than you are concerned - as if she's really the selfish bitch from hell when it comes to you then your relationship won't last past her finding something better than you (another man, another job in another city, whatever) and moving on, and I don't think that's something you really want.

That said I'm not trying to tell you what you want and don't want, and if that's the impression you get from this post then I'll retract anything I've said. It's your life, and if I really had a miracle solution that worked every time I'd apply it to myself before trying to force it down other people's throats!

 

Sometimes (often), the most giving people are actually the most selfish in that they give so much only in the hope and expectance to get approval and a validation for their existence in return. Many people seem to function on silent conventions like that.

 

chev, we're on two opposite ends of the spectrum and you know that just as well as I do. Like I said, there is an underlying similitude between what you and I want, but as 8peeps said, your definition of a dream gal is one man's gold, your gold, and again, what 8peeps described is one man's gold, my gold. And if I can be perfectly honest, 8peeps reminds me a lot of what she describes, so there you have it, a very concrete example of my kind of gold.

Charl has also made a very, very good point about giving people, and she hits the nail dead straight on the head. Not saying every single giving person is selfish, but some of them actually are because they feel this will benifit them in the long run, or have a psychological need for validation, which is an extremely interesting theory.

And I also have to tip my hat to 8peeps again for a brilliant comparaison between an argument and a storm. The analogy is in the context perfect, and I can but heartily agree.

It's also true that it sometimes takes a big argument to make two halves of a relationship face and work through the demons. Yes, sometimes it will mean the end, and I can't speak for the others, but I'd rather have an argument that makes me call a relationship quits (like with my latest ex, for example), than just put on rose-colored glasses and hypocritical smiles while being infuriated on the inside.

And I'll clarify a bit about wanting a selfish bitch from hell, making a few parrallels with myself (don't you all LOVE those? )

I care about the people who are truly close to me, and being a very difficult person to befriend, the friendships I build tend to be stronger and last longer versus an extroverted person. I won't let a gf or a friend in trouble, but I won't go out of my way to help either. The rule of thumb is "I'll help you, as long as it doesen't put my arse in the fire".

I've also made it crystal clear of what I think about community work and social involvement - I only give a damn about me and those close to me, and that's a dose of harsh reality.

 

Hmm... I'm not sure I have a definition. In a way, I do, but I'd rather not categorise people too much.

I'm not sure to what extent it's one man's gold, another's something else. Well, there are people who like the uncertainty whether a promise will be kept and who enjoy such thrills in a relationship. I hold that keeping promises is objectively superior to not keeping promises. I mean in principle, not in particular extreme examples. Similarly, being generous would be objectively superior to small-mindedness. Thus I would say some of the ideals I mentioned are objective. Some are indeed a matter of preference. Generally preference is a certain set of priorities, that is, which traits are more important and which are less so.

I tend to believe that both of those imperfect approaches may lead to a change of heart and the person understanding more of the principles and becoming closer to the ideal. Ideally, people would stick to principles for the sake of the principles and I mean the spirit, not the letter.

Agreed. It brings a lot of pain, but it's the better way.

I think with some friends you'd be ready to risk getting burnt.

I sense bitterness in you...