An odd party... opinions needed.

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C'mon guys, this is ridiculous.
1 INT means you can't breathe? Then it wouldn't be possible to create such a character, since it would drop dead shortly after creation. The intelligence score can't be directly correlated to IQ. 10INT being IQ100 = roughly average human intelligence, that would make 1 INT IQ10. I don't deny that a 1INT character would be a gibbering idiot, but it's still able to function properly. It is a representation of 'degrees below average intelligence', but certainly not linear down to zero (death). That's why the game doesn't allow stats to drop below 1, try wearing a CHA penalty item on a 1 CHA character, it won't die. 1 INT would be about IQ 50, a severe case of down syndrome.
Also, I don't agree that low charisma would incite people to actively become agressive or repelled by them. That sounds more like BG2 reputation. They're just profoundly dull and uninteresting.

Think of it this way: The game allots you a certain amount of points to min-max your characters. If you make a fighter wit 3 INT, it is just as effective as a fighter with 8 or 9 INT. The game allows you to make a dump-stat of INT for fighters, since INT doesn't matter. Why not look at it as if the stat is irrelevant to the character, and can be disregarded. He/she won't ever amount to much in that field, and probably doesn't need to. This applies mainly to INT and CHA, less so to WIS (it affects will saves), and I'd never recomment making STR, DEX and CON a dump-stat. Weak, slow and sickly adventurers are unlikely to make it as far as Targos.

 

A much better (as in, matching real world IQ frequencies) equivalence is 10-11 INT = 100 IQ, and each +1/-1 INT modifier = +10/-10 IQ. 18 INT = 140 IQ, which is genius level. Just as only 1/216 of DND commoners would have 18 INT (assuming they roll 3d6), about 1/200 of real world humans have IQ at or above 140.

So INT 3 would be IQ:60, which is in the middle of the "mildly retarded" range, described as "they can often acquire academic skills up to the 6th grade level. They can become fairly self-sufficient and in some cases live independently, with community and social support."

INT 1 would be IQ:50, which at the upper border of "Moderate mental retardation", which means "They can carry out work and self-care tasks with moderate supervision. They typically acquire communication skills in childhood and are able to live and function successfully within the community in a supervised environment such as a group home."

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthato...=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/mental_retardation.jsp

 

Well, considering int 1 is the lowest your int can be before you are pretty much dead...that means that it should be the lower bounds of retardation...in fact, considering negative int is insta-death i believe isnt it...

1 should be comatose, 3 should be VERY retarted (like, wheelchair and moans). 6 would be upper bounds of retarded (peter griffin?), 8 would be kinda dumb and 10 would be average...

seems more realistic to me...

 

If a character has a high charisma, and minimized INT and WIS, it would just mean that he/she has dedicated all their mental faculties to this aspect, as it reflects their skill in their profession.
I don't believe a mighty sorcerer can be a charismatic wheelchair-bound mongol suffering from a total lack of wisdom. These other stats should simply be largely disregarded, as they have little to do with the character's profession.
A monk devotes all his time to prayer, and he deliberately ignores things like science and socializing, since it won't help him to get into heaven. When you talk to such a character he might seem like he was born yesterday, but he simply doesn't want to know.
Similarly, a sorcerer doesn't need to understand the working of spells, becauae he doesn't need to learn them, he knows spells innately. CHA represents his talent at sorcery.
A wizard won't waste time on things like prayer or social events, because he needs to study the magic arts.

I'm of the opinion that very low stats don't mean anything to a character, but high INT, WIS or CHA indicates this characters initial talent, and his focusing and improving his mental faculties, to advance further.

@JT
Yes, high stats would be very rare in the "real" dnd world, but how likely would it be to get to level 30?

 

If D&D were real life, monks would still have int scores that made sense. Just because you dont use something, doesnt mean it gets an int score of 1. Its why later games did away with min maxing, because its simply not realistic for a fighter to be too stupid to understand what a sword is, but be able to one shot the guardian.

If you want to min max that badly, just dale keeper your characters. that way, you can have clerics with believable int scores, and still have that uber character you want.

 

A good point. Because having a powergaming monk, and giving it 8 INT for believability is practically a cosmetic feature. It has no relevance in the game.

BTW, maybe INT shouldn't be the only stat that reflects IQ. A character's WIS and CHA are also mental features, and should add to the characters estimated IQ score.
Even DEX requires brain functions, and should have some consideration.
I believe a sorcerer with 18DEX, 3INT, 3WIS and 18CHA would have roughly IQ80 at least.

 

ah, but iq doesnt seem to be affected by how wise someone is...
i know a good few people with no common sense but an awful lot of book smarts...

high IQ but not wise at all...of course...generally as IQ goes up Charisma goes down

Dex more measures flexibility and how well your body is coordinated (ala Zoolander...)...i mean...how much dexterity does it take to take an IQ test? (finger coordination maybe...)

 

The IQ TEST is merely a flawed method to determine your skill and usefulness in companies, and reflects your brain's PURE intellect. Many skills are learned through experience, and intuition, but your boss doesn't care about that, just your ability to do the job. You'll need social skills and common sense to do most jobs, but they're hard to test and will become apparent later on.
Wisdom and charisma are features you learn or have innately, but even if there were a test for this, wisdom and charisma are too vague to properly test for anyway.

Having 3INT means you're about as good in contributing to a science talk as the average mongol, but doesn't meant you ARE one. You can offer a wise or charismatic viewpoint entirely your own, but the others might not appreciate it, let alone find it useful.

People with down syndrome have very limited mental faculties, and they will have low INT, WIS AND CHA.

A 3INT, 18WIS, 3CHA druid isn't merely a bumbling, uninteresting fool overflowing with common sense. I believe he/she is a very talented character, with an entirely unique perspective and approach towards the world. Her TRUE IQ should reflect this.

Trying to outsmart a wizard in a conversation with logic only wouldn't work out for a bard, that's why he has his own approach as well. He's no idiot, just clever enough to specialize in the skill he is good at.

 

A bit off-topic... but IQ heavily relies on communication skills as well (all such tests/exams do, if you think about it). So someone with very high INT and WIS but incredibly low CHA (where CHA is seen as "personality" charisma, as opposed to physical beauty) may still score low on an IQ test. This is sometimes visible with some forms of autism. A friend's brother is autistic and consistently scores low (as in significantly below average) on IQ tests or similar but frequently shows signs of an incredibly developed intellect. When these bursts don't coincide with him taking a test he scores very low.

 

Umm, guys, can we not degenerate this into a debate between powergaming and roleplaying, or the quality of various IQ tests? Thanks.
On topic, just kicked Torak's ugy butt. Currently, fights are not insanely difficult, with judicious use of Healing Potions, Sleep, and Hold Person. I'm just worried about Shaengarne bridge.

 

I wanted to mention that too, but it's even more off topic. CHA isn't only determined by your own abilities, but the perception of others. It has both a mental and a physical component.
A bard or sorceress could be born a total bimbo, but leveling up in CHA would represent him/her honing her limited mental abilities towards what he/she does best.

Thankfully the party doesn't have to defeat IQ tests, or they'd be hopelessly outmatched. And I doubt my wizard will have many stimulating discussions, but he didn't exactly join a book club now, did he?

One aspect that I can't explain away is how my 6 party members can work together so efficiently during combat despite being idiots, being recklessly unwise and/or lacking communication skills. But that's about all.

 

What level are your guys? It shouldn't be that difficult. Especially with pure casters in your party.

 

you shouldnt have much trouble...just realize that when you enter the area you dont have a chance to prepare your spells and such before being swarmed ^_^

 

Not all players in team sports are that clever, intelligent or charismatic.
The party mempers can still fight well together if they either have one wise or intelligent leader that they have decided to follow, or if someone have trained them so that they know what to do in a few situations. The last maybe requires a little wisdom, but not much.

In IWD2, they usually show how stupid they are when you try to get the whole party through a smaller passage...

And I don't see 3 in an ability as someone that has some kind of disorder. 3 is a regular guy that is very bad at it (one in about 200, wneh not including people with some kind of disorder). Down syndrome and autism are more like some kind of penalty when trying to use the ability score in some situations. In the same way, someone with an amputated leg don't neccesary have an extremely low dex score. He only have a penalty in many situations that use the dex modifier.

 

Shaengarne hence owned. Did the old tactic of multiple Sleep spells to rush to the Bridge. Wiped the floor with Xuki and those moronic Ogres. Rested, and then took on the rest of the map. The Fortress is gonna be the real challenge now. If I can get through that without too much trouble, I'm fairly sure this party can take on the rest of the game.

 

Invisibility Sphere is almost cheesy in this map. Xuki will still force-talk to you, but it doesn't matter. Kill the ogres, Xuki and anything that sees you.

Then you can spearhead from the bridge after that: Summons led by an invisible character will make it real easy.

I agree.

Maybe not relevant for you, and perhaps spoiler:

Spoiler

when you get to the roof of the fortress, you will be seen right away, in normal mode the enemies can be dealt with, but in Heart of Fury there's just too many of them.
I had my favourite battle on this map, HoF mode. I went in invisible, went to a spot where my spellcasters were in a corner, my barbarian started attacking something, and practically half the map's monsters swarmed towards him. I cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on him, and enemies still went after him because he was up front and first to be seen. 4 of my 5 spellcasters bombarded the area with damage spells (clouds, spikes, DBFB, horrid wiltings, everything but the kitchen sink), while my cleric with poor crowd control spells summoned a few monsters to take care of stragglers that came the spellcaster's way.
It was absolutely awesome, and a sight to behold. Gave me quite a kick!

 

I have not played HOF mode only because my time is limited on gaming sadly..,only normal mode(too many games and not enough time for each). I used a Drow female cleric/monk,to give wisdom bonus to AC,it was cool. Items for monks are handy you will find and I used a Mod to allow robes to be worn,thus my choice. If you use mods then a Ranger(Good) allows for the Mielikki Bow and Arrow(+5 returning),and archery amulet later in the wandering village,and a Dwarf(Tempus Cleric/F/Barb..is good for them)gives you cool axes which can be bought or found and Dwarf only warhammers. If evil you can(if you are up to the fight)kill Malvorn in the Underdark and get his Robes of Evil Magi for your cleric/monk..heh as I did(but you have to skip his quest and buy all you need from the drow before fighting them)...I ummm backstabbed him to death before he had the chance to kill me and summoned first to protect the party. Druid(NG)+Ranger some gives Mielikki bow later. I got level 30 before end of the game,easily. You have to juggle levelling and mule,only way.

*Xps at Horde Fortress,allow goblin warg riders to continue,don't destroy war drums..about 650xp/kill I had at 3-4 at a time. Hang near the girl(Ten Towns Scout) who can heal and aid with missile fire.
*Western pass,wait for the beetles outside the ship until all killed,use missle from distance easier. You can kill about 30 then you get xp for killing them all in addition. Destroy the nest after for more xp.
*Quest xp is not level dependant(I hope....),so do fighting xp first before you think of Quest xp then levelling,if you can. Patience patience...
*Black raven monestry,(Monty python...??? "Yeti Goose Creature"). Hang outside the monastry near the bridge and rest,you will get piled on by up to 6 or so Yetis and ferocious ones for extra xp and Yeti pelts(Store in Dragon nest there-don't take egg though there..later,or inside the building).
*Ice Temple,level 2,best for some xps and equiptment you can sell,but gain the amulet of wound closure first as you will get hit by bleeding wounds a lot(pause game in fight and transfer equiptment when hit to stop..heh).
#Don't try for xp at wandering village as the Ferocius wolves are deadly on normal,and not worth the xps,one of my worst opponents!!!!

Oh the Ogre said.. "I never expected the Spanish Inquisition.."

 

Thought I'd update in case anyone cared. Fortress was done fairly easily (hit Guthma with Chromatic Orb and beat him to death with #3 and #4, LOL), though Warrens were occasionally challenging. Cleared the Andora area (Illium is annoying), cleared Ice Wall (butchered Sherincal), and now gonna enter the Temple itself. I'm thinking of using that "Skip Battlesquare" option from Ease of use just to cut the hassle :/