Baldur's Gate (Fallout) - Greatest CRPGs

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Playing the newer CRPG are exactly that, CRPGS. That is why BG and Fallout are so great. They make the player feel as if he is actually part of a role playing group thanks to all the senseless humor inserted by the developers, just like a true DM throws into a gaming session.

 

Indeed. After BG2 (not counting ToB because ToB is really crappy in comparison to the prequels) there haven't been a single CRPG worth playing really. The only game, which can remotely compare is NWN (and maybe 2 as well) based on the modability and the numerous amazing fan made modules out there.
By the way, you should add PS:T up there too! Unless of course you haven't played it, in which case shame on you .

 

After I played the original BG I did not get back into computer gaming until 2005; since that time PS:T has cost around $45 and I have a hard time justifying that cost for a game that is over 5 years old. Hard to believe but December this year marks BG 10th year anniversary!

 

Agree and stuff. PS:T, BGs and Fallouts are on a completely different level. I'd also like to add Arcanum to that list. People who've played it know the reasons.

Kotor I&II are great, but they're not replayable. You'll always end up as a jedi/sith with maybe two different force powers and possibly dualwield.
NWN2 has many small flaws. It's a bit linear and forces you to have a partially melee character. MotB is of course awesome, but short and has epic level characters. I won't comment on NWN.
Oblivion turned out to be blah, Witcher was boring and other games aren't worth mentioning.

The future? Dragon Age didn't seem like the game I was expecting. Fallout 3 I expect to be a disaster.
Help me Storm of Zehir, you're my only hope.

 

Baldur's Gate was good, but not *that* good. If you look at the IE games, the best would be Planescape: Torment. But there definitely has been CRPGs released after those which are worth playing!

 

"BG isn't that good. I mean this is only the 20th time I've finished it." Admit it.
IMHO It is impossible to compare those games.

BG is overall maybe the best game I've played. And I'm not talking about it being the best RPG ever, but an endlessly replayable and enjoyable game. There are only a few other games in any genre that have accomplished this.

Now PS:T might be the best RPG ever. That or Fallout or Arcanum. It's really just a matter of which setting you like. But it is not the best game ever.

 

What makes a CRPG truly great?

-Non linearity, interaction with the world and several possibilities of completing any given quest.

That would be my answer and the best games in that respect are still Fallout 1 and 2.

BG1 was good because you could go anywhere but it was somehow limited on the quest level despite some great ideas and a particular good rendering.

Other games may cheat you into believing they are non linear when in fact they play like one would watch a video or read a book. If it's a good story you'll get the illusion of playing an RPG (thus forgetting the C) but if you can't "willingly suspend your disbelief" you will only enjoy the more mundane aspect of the game (character development and planning, powergaming with items and exploits or hack and slash à la Diablo).

This can be fun, but it's not the definition of CRPG in my book.

Now considering a few of the games that have been mentioned, I'd say Arcanum would rank among the best if it wasn't so flawed (although I intend to finish it someday) and I'd say that Planescape Torment while being great is an oddity compared to BG because it is in a totally different league (I still have to finish it).

Now if you compare NWN to BG you see exactly what I meant earlier. In NWN the most interesting thing is character development and treasure hunting. In BG it's more than that. NPCs are important and I'm sure that Tomi Gallows or the useless Tiefling from HotU will be forgotten long before Minsc or Edwin.

In NWN you have to look for modules to find what BG supplied right from the start: a story. It's sad to see that stories are getting worse as time goes by (time to mention Oblivion and Morrowind). The same goes for KotoR which rehashed some quests that seemed to come directly from BG...

In any case, if any game refers to my character as "the Chosen One" (hoping Decados won't notice) I might just snap, especially if that game has been released in this millenium.

 

Ultima 4-7 was insanely great as well. I read somewhere that they used those games for inspiration, when making the BG games.

Betrayal at Krondor was amazing as well.

 

Vampire: Bloodlines

Yes, yes, it was buggy. Yes, it was really poorly optimized. It was, however, still a ****ing great RPG. Even if it did have guns and a first-person perspective.

 

Agreed. 4-7 was the golden age of Ultima. Betrayal at Krondor was a really fun game. I don't put it at the same level as the Ultimas, Baldurs Gates, Fallouts, or PST.

I recently finished the Witcher. It was one of the best games I've ever played. Lot's of quests, lot's of grey. There is very little in the game that is cut and dry. Many ways to complete quests, including the main one. The story telling was excellent, the production values high. The replay value is high. I look forward to multiple runs through it.

 

I knew I was forgetting something. That game was fantastic.

 

wow, it seems like trellheim is reading my mind before he posts

top five rpgs of all time: fallout 1, bg, bg 2, arcanum, ps:t

 

I have yet to play Arcanum or PS:T; however, if both became available to me for under $10 I would buy them just to play them.

How about NOX; I heard that is another good RPG.

 

Ugh. The BG series are good games, but really it's not phenomenal. It plays, as Aik referenced once, like a Hollywood movie, an epic, but as far as role-playing goes it's utterly worthless (especially BG2. BG1 was okay). It really infuriates me when people go around harping on about it being the best RPG ever without having played, for example, PS:T. How could you tell the good from the bad when you've only played the bad?

Some good RPGs that are not BG or Fallout include PS:T, Arcanum (utterly brilliant game), the KotOR series, and MotB. PS:T goes without saying. Arcanum is a woefully underlooked game. KotOR isn't very role-playey, and it's somewhat watered down for the consoles, but you have to admit it's great fun being able to kill people with LIGHTSABRES. And MotB is just a great game in general.

Oh, and I think Beren will agree with me here, Wizardry 8 is another phenomenal but underlooked game. And, say, the MM series (especially HoMM - but that's not very RPG-y). Morrowind and Oblivion are good games too, but in a completely different way. Roleplaying is virtually null, but the vastness of the world and the exploration you can do makes up for it. Plus, some of the mods you can install are really good.

Expand your horizons! Don't just get tied down to IE games or (worse) BG! It's really just...not that amazing.

 

I have experience a ton of table top RGP and even more CRPGs, almost every console RPG out there up until the PS3 came out. What most of the newer games are missing is a good back story or a very shorten back story. I like a well developed story and BG has that and at the end it leaves you wanting more. In addition BG is not a high power game, which is the type of game I like. You don't end the game at level 20 with +5 items; in fact one of the most powerful items in the game is a +1 or +2 long sword. BG is one of the few games that actually stuck with the rule set of D&D and excuted them perfectly. Yeah it has it flaws but it is one of the top selling RGPs of all time for a reason.

 

That reason has alot to do with the D&D aspect of the game, mind you. Stamp that on a game, and it sells. No matter how bad it is. The BG games were good, though. The Ultima games, were better, in my opinion-as roleplaying games, that is.

 

The original Baldur's Gate is indeed an exceptional game; but the series as a whole isn't that great (in other words, I don't like SoA and ToB ).

 

I didn't mind SoA; I hated ToB. I don't mind playing a game until I am level 20 or so; after that the game gets to be annoying as you are overpowered fighting overpowered enemies. Both could die, though it never works in your favor as often, from a single blow.

 

IMHO, torment and KOTOR are are at the top of their league in terms of storyline.

And in terms of replayability, I've spent much more time on diablo 2 and GW then BG2.

I loved BG2 when I started playing it. Replayed it countless times. But after that first rush I find it difficult to get back into it.

By contrast I didnt like IWD2 that much, but it gets better with age.

FO2 is in a league of its own