Why don't more RPGs use "Party Banter"?

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(OK, the obvious answer is Time and Money, but work with me here.)

Here's what started me thinking about this: Why are the NPCs in BG and BGII more "realistic" than NPCs in other games?

It's not because of the interaction really, most RPG games have that now. In some cases, this is actually overused. Bioware kind of overdid it in KOTOR with Mission and others stopping us now and then to chat about something. NWN2 seems to be pretty bad about making the NPCs comment on almost every conversation too.

But that doesn't really make them realistic...just kind of annoying.

It's not really the character design either. While the BG NPCs are pretty unique for the most part, that still doesn't make them seem "alive".

No, to me, what makes them seem real is the way they banter. Those comments they make when you're just walking around (or standing around).

Commenting on the location, the groups rep, other people in the party, whatever. Even when you hear the same thing over and over, it still seems like they have some "life" to them.

But later games, like NWN and NWN2, and KOTOR and probably a bunch more don't use this kind of bantering. If a character has something to say, they go into conversation mode. Or else, it's just the script firing for a battlecry and "finished unlocking the chest" quote.

Other than BG, are there any other games that really use this kind of banter system? I assume PST does, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

What do you think about party banter?

Cheers!

-D

 

Not really 'banter' as such, but I get what you're saying.

Out of Dialogue comments on the area are sadly underused and something I intend to include in games I design in the future.

Perhaps even conversations between NPCs that don't go straight to the dialogue screen. And you only hear them if you stay near them instead of running off, a little like BG1 where some NPCs would snipe or compliment each other.

 

Yeah, that's another area sorely lacking. In BG, the NPC in town would often comment about stuff. or to use an example from another genre: the badguys in the Operative: No One LIves Forever had hilarious and sometimes thought-provoking conversations you could overhear. Made you almost feel bad for gunning them down.

Almost.

 

A bit like the Thief series then? Where you often hear guards and people talking about things around them and discussing latest events, and sometimes give you clues as to what troubles may lie in wait or information about your objective.

 

The Witcher has a good bit of ambient chatter. Some of it is quite amusing, some offensive.

 

Another good example...I loved listening to the guards and people chatting about stuff in Thief. that's why the monster levels were such a downer. Zombies don't have much to say to each other.

OK, I was already planning to pick this up at some point, but that's one more reason to do so.

C'mon other game developers...get with the program!

 

Those who played (or still play) Jagged Alliance 2 will recall the inter party banter. Some folks liked each other, others didn't. It added a lot of texture to the game.

 

I remember JA2, Jack. Very good game. The ultima games, and Betrayal at Krondor, also had bantering.

Seems like newer games focus pretty much only on graphics, and multi-player options. Even games where you get joinable NPC`s seems to be lessening, as well.

 

The most accomplished form of party interaction I've seen was in the Ishar games. Party members liked each other, disliked each other, plotted against each other, even murdered each other without asking your opinion... I think they took it way too far but it was certainly unique at the time.

 

I allways meant to try those games. Saw them on Abandonia, the other day. Graphics wasn`t too bad either.

 

The Max Payne games were good for that too. If you could sneak up to the guys, you couldhear what they were talking about...

 

Very true. Oblivion also had that, as well.

 

Oblivion? Oblivion's "conversation" was pathetic...

It's a shame party banters aren't used more often. They're about the only thing that makes BG2 good...

You could consider Final Fantasy games to have a lot of banter (or, well, "interjections"), but it's true, not many games utilize banters. Though I should probably play The Witcher.

Oh, and how about KotOR? They had some great banters every time you stepped inside the Ebon Hawk. Interesting stuff, but sadly too pre-scripted, I feel.

 

Still, anything is better than nothing, though.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that.

For example: In NWN, ignoring the OC (which had basically 0 interaction), SoU had some interaction from Dorna. It wasn't much, and nothing like the kind of banter you get in the BG games. But at least there was an attempt to give her a personality.

I'm playing through the NWN2 OC and they wen't too far in the other direction. I'm seriously considering kickinh Neeshka and the dwarf guy out of the party because they seem to have a comment for EVERYTHING. I wouldn't mind if it was a banter type comment, but when I have to click through 3 or four screens of them arguing about every other conversation I have with an NPC, it gets really annoying.


Sometimes less is better.

-D

 

I believe the point of this post is that the banter in BG1, BG2, and earlier games occurred within the group and there was no pop-up window where you would have to click out of it to continue on with the game. To this end HotU does have this type of banter when you have 2 henchmen. In SoU the banter was small talk with the PC, which should require you input.

As the online world has expanded the gaming world went from a single person controling a group to a group of PC controling on person; this change reflects the change in the PC gaming market. Software companies realize that there is little they can do to control how their content is copied, but they control who plays and who does not by having consumers pay a monthly subscription fee. That fees covers the original development cost and future enhancements to the game. It is also more profitable than building a single player game in hopes of cover the cost of development and earning a profit.

I personally prefer the single style game; to me gaming is ment to be enjoyed by yourself or within a small group; not an online game where you interact with a bunch of other people playing the same game.

In fact most of Bioware games have a good multi-player feature; which is why I enjoy their games and on occasion have played online.

 

JRPGs have it. "Tales" series for example.

And yes, I like it and would hope to see more of it.

 

In Fallout 1 and 2 NPCs had some pretty funny lines which would appear above their heads (I loved Myron's lines in Fallout 2). During fights NP§Cs would taunt you that way, it was fun.

Fallout 3 has a bit of that too (raiders and supermutants have some fun oneliners) and you can hear NPCs engage in conversation just like in Oblivion but the only follower I had was a bit dull (I still have to find others).

Slightly off-topic but in Civ IV AI leaders have some great lines as well.

 

I still play it, and the banter and interactions are probably the best and most entertaining in any game I've played. It never gets old. I have Ivan Dolvich as my cellphone ringtone.

 

That is excellent! I still play as well. Do you have version 1.13? For that matter, do you go to the Bear pit?