Whale Wars - Activists or Terrorists

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Specifically talking about the show on the Animal Planet channel.
As far as i have seen these so called activists have engaged in criminal acts including but not limited to : chemical attacks(butyric acid & some type of sticky flour bombs), illegally boarding another countries vessels, trying to foul the props of a vessel in international waters & in one video shot from a previous year actually ramming one of the ships.

I think that every member of the sea sheperd's crew should be charged with piracy.
What do you guys(& gals) on the boards think?

 

Dunno what I think but it seems like an awful lot of work fighting whale hunting. Wouldn't you save more animals and a lot more easily if you fought rat killing or even deer killing?

 

A lot of whaling that goes on is illegal. What these guys do is illegal as well.

 

As long as governments fail at an astounding rate, people like sea shepherds are needed. They choose whaling since it is a symbol of useless activity. It is very easy to stop whaling since all products from those animals have better alternatives.

 

Ah, but they target legal vessels as well. Remember that case earlier this year (?) where a Japanese vessel was targetted. There were a lot of people that complained that Japan's "science program" was actually a cheap front for putting whale meat on the market, but the governments of the world allow it for the time being.

All in all, though, criminal activity is criminal activity and should be punished like it. Now, if you want to take pictures of everything they do, including close-ups of the crew, and then file charges in court, then that's ok in my book, but these guys are, at best, vigillantes and at worst terrorists.

 

I've seen a couple of episodes. I admit, I keep hoping the Japanese whaler that they are trying to sneak up on turns out to be a destroyer and they get blown to hell and beyond. I vote terrorists and if not terrorists at the very least they are criminals. I can't believe this is on television.

 

The problem is, that those countries that still practice whaling, have deep rooted traditions, and have convinced everyone in their countries that they are practising whaling in a sustainable manner. There's barely any opposition in the countries themselves, and any political pressure is met with great irritation, so other countries avoid the subject in the interest of good relations. In response to a tense atmosphere about consuming whales, the japanese gov't has reclassified whaling as research (it's so lame when gov'ts use obvious lies, but also typifies the japanese sentiment towards whaling. There is usually less tolerance towards lying by the gov't in Japan, than say, in the States.), adding another layer of significance to harpooning, making it even harder to tackle legally.
Activists go to great lengths to not just get more attention to the subject, but also to directly delay them. These actions are all that opponents of whaling can do, to keep it from being forgotten. Their actions are going far indeed, and I do worry that they might cross a line that even I wouldn't support, but so far they're not crossing that line. Combating whaling is a far better cause than most I heard of lately. Many war crimes, and political and nationalist fervor go unpunished too, so before activists get convicted of piracy, let's tackle the real bad guys first.

 

Terrorist is an overly emotionally loaded word, one that I'd prefer to leave the ones that actually kill people. Their actions are criminal however and they should be punished accordingly. I don't have much symapathy for this kind of sabotage. A minority is trying to preassure the majority into submission through violent unlawful action which is unacceptable. Around here this kind of "activism" is often directed towards the fur industry.

 

The funniest part was when the captain of the sea shepherd ship tried to say he had been shoot by the japanese crew.
Kinda funny he had bullet proof vest on but there was no hole in the jacket he had on over it.
Oh & supposedly the bullet went through the vest & was stopped by a badge he had on his shirt under the vest.
A perfect heart shot from 1 ship to the other when the are traveling at 15 knots in rough weather. That would have been a helluva marksman.

 

There are REAL pirates off Somalia extorting millions. Has anyone done anyting? OH, but try to save a couple whales and the there's no end to the whining.

 

Not to derail this thread too much, but I believe I just heard that the UN has finally agreed that the Somali piracy must stop. They have just passed a resolution allowing military action. I think they also mentioned that the Chinese Navy is considering sending warships into the area. I'm hoping there will be video.

 

Chandos, the issue is trying to make them heroes on national TV. I would expect equal outrage, if not more, if Animal Planet did a special on the 'struggles' of the modern Somali pirate, in which it portrayed the Somali pirates as 'desperate men, struggling to survive unjust persecution, etc.'

 

I agree: They are pirates, and there is no other way to describe them as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think the part of this definition that excludes environmental activism from being piracy, is the "for private ends" part. Naturally, by fighting for biodiversity, in the long run they benefit themselves too, but since they don't benefit directly, their actions must be deemed altruistic. Not the kind of altruism worthy of an inspiring storybook, but it is what it is.
Activists are not pirates by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.

Now there are grounds by which activists could be compared with terrorists, unfortunately, and this is mainly due to this reason:

We can thank GWB's namecalling spree for that.

Since the activists greatest tools to fight whaling are the disapproval of it by most governments, and the sentiment among the people, activists must be careful not to do something like spreading fear among the general population. The part about the ideological goal rings true. The final component, about disregard for noncombatants, is hard to test, since all the crew of a whaling boat can be considered combatants, and there's no innocent bystanders to be hit by collateral damage on the open seas. Whaler crew cannot be considered general public, because they support whaling unwaveringly, by their culture and livelihood, and are directly involved in killing whales. So if the actions of activists were to spread fear among whalers, then this is more akin to combat tactics than terrorism. I'd wager that activists would be careful to avoid hurting anyone who isn't directly involved in whaling, and I'd be surprised and disappointed to hear that they were actually targeting the whalers and not the equipment. My conclusion would be that activism doesn't fall under the warped and vague umbrella-term of terrorism, but opinions about this will no doubt vary.

I was surprised to hear that copyright infringement was legally dubbed piracy so so long ago, since it seems a hyperbolic statement. We should be careful with these definitions, because one day they will lose their meaning. When people who make a mistake on their tax forms are called terrorists (they did commit an act that undermined the state), it will only serve to breed sympathy for actual terrorists. Now that I am a pirate of sorts, when I infringe upon copyright-holders concept of ownership, and steal their creations, I can only feel connected to those who fall under the same name; actual pirates. It doesn't seem to matter that I'm not physically hurting anybody. And when I steal their creation, it is claimed that I hurt the economy and their ability to enrich themselves. But since this would have been directly at my own expense, I still don't seem to feel guilty about it.

I'm digressing now, but the point I wanted to make, is we should stop using exaggerated terms like terrorism and piracy for lesser things.

 

I'm a little disturbed by your eagerness to see video footage of people dying.

 

No doubt the sabotage of Nazi concentration camps would be called 'terrorism' in today's society. "How dare a couple of vigilantes break the law and sabotage government property, the world governments have no problem with what the Nazis are doing with the Jews."

Big deal if a couple of Japs get 'harassed', who really cares? They aren't getting harpooned or having electric rods shoved up their collective anus, so they should be grateful that all they have to put up with is a few hippies with big balls.

 

[Coin - You want to report a post, you report a post. You don't then add your commentary to a thread in a way that is guaranteed to derail the thread. Next, you might want to read the original post, in that the whale show that is being discussed is airing on Animal Planet. -dmc]

You're not telling me anything new: that's the whole concealment part of the remark.
Animal Planet would never air anything that has nothing to do with animals, so why did NOG feel the need to add it in his statement?

 

yeah? but how long until the japs they start properly arming themselves? then the hippies will have to arm themselves and before you know it, gunfights at sea.

 

Now, this is a good point. If I were the captain of one of those vessels (and thus morally approved of whaling), I'd arm all my crew that I trusted with a gun with guns. Probably nothing more than 9mm pistols, but real guns. If they start tossing water ballons full of corrosive acids at me, illegally boarding my ship, etc. I'd open fire. Warning shots at first, of course, but I'd defend my vessel with lethal force if need be.

 

Japanese society is very different from ours. They had a very violent past, but now they are a peaceful society. My wife lived there for a year, and she claims they are the most non-violent society she has ever encountered (unless you are a whale, I guess).