Is atheism a religion?

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Aren't you the guy who believed that Bush blew up the World Trade Center? What time are the aliens coming to pick YOU up?

 

What were the arguments used against my 9/11 claims?
- I believe that politicians couldn't pull this off.
- I believe that this is a ridiculous/insulting/blasphemous claim.
- I believe that such a conspiracy couldn't possibly be kept secret.
- I believe that the WTC could fall at almost free-fall speed without planted explosives.
- I believe that the tallest buildings in the world were of poor construction.
- I believe that there's nothing suspicious about the only 3 buildings in history to collapse from fire, happening on the same day.
- I believe that the buildings contained the ingredients for thermite, and blew themselves up.
- I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT'S STORY.

If anything, you're illustrating how you question your own assumptions even less than I do. I don't know what happened on that day, but the (empirical) evidence suggests that more went on than has been released to the public. I started the thread with a simple question, hoping for some input from others, maybe links to more info. Instead I got ridiculed and mobbed by a bunch of right-wing nationalists. There's something seriously wrong over there in the States, both in the government, and in the people's mentality.

What time are the aliens coming to pick YOU up?
(is that a Texan greeting?)

 

Maybe it's just you.

 

The government sealed off the site and scrapped all the important evidence, making any proper investigation impossible. Scientists admit that this makes any hypotheses ultimately untestable. Science is based on empirical data, and there nothing left to analyze. Does 'offered with science' mean something like 'a story with a scientific flavour'? Science isn't some side-order, it isn't a ketchup that gives an otherwise preposterous story a better taste.

And then there are a couple of board members, who claim to have conclusive scientific explanations for this phenomenon, stating joules of energy and other figures. Contrary to the common belief, that the 47 steel columns in the centre form a support structure, one guy claims the support was actually on the outside of the building, and another claims it was actually held up by spanning wires. martaug even links to a scientist who claims that there were enough engredients in the building to actually form thermite, so the building was a giant bomb! Woohoo! Don't forget to contact the scientific community, to inform them of what they overlooked...

These explanations aren't scientific. Science is based on empirical evidence, which the government destroyed. These are stories, rationalizations like in the Bible. You people are willingly deluding yourselves, and the more I continue about it the angrier you get. I can't even try to be convinced by the government's stories: they're so far-fetched it's ridiculous.

 

Nobody ever believes me when I say that the Jews are masquerading as Muslim suicide bombers in order to promote regional warfare. But you might be the one Coin! My reasons for believing this.

1) The people are blown up! How can you tell what beliefs they follow
2) It helps continue the established goal of war
3) Everyone knows the reputation of those crazy Muslims. Of course the Israelis would exploit that!

See, three reasons to believe that Muslim suicide bombers are non-existent. Of course, there is lots of evidence towards the Muslim's blowing themselves up, and also the motives for Israeli's to pull off such an act is sketchy... but those details don't matter

Wow, that is a lot less funny than I meant it to be. Don't take it too harshly Coin, I was going for a good-natured ribbing as I think your beliefs regarding the WTC are comical. Such as my example, both with Palestine, and a terrible failure of an attempt at humor

 

If it wasnt an inside job then Im a monkeys uncle. I knew from the start it was an inside job. The way science investigates things is by formulating hypotheses, testing them, discarding the ones that dont work, and then making theories which are models that unite facts together. None of this was ever done. Ive come to realise that people who are religious, which the majority of Americans are, only want to be told what to think. They dont want to think about things, they cant, they have a long history of ingrained ignorance and an unwillingness to think. Religious thinking has dulled their critical thinking skills. Now, I realise that the Christians who post on here are NOT those kinds of people, which only serves to confuse me even more as to how you can compartmentalize your brains into separating logic and reason and faith and belief. None of these things should exist in someones mind at the same time. Logic and reason cancel out faith and belief every time. Scientists dont believe anything, they either know or they dont know. Science is agnosticism and skepticism in practice, with no claim of knowledge being made unless there is very very very very very good reasons for making said claims, and reasons for why you reached your conclusion that are based in reality.

Hes a scientist, and scientists dont have beliefs, and if they do chances are they are Americans.

 

Would the word 'view' in lieu of 'belief' be more appropriate... or maybe theory? I guess I'm not the kind of person who gets too caught up in such problems... at least as long as the implied meaning gets across.

And yes, you are a monkey's uncle

 

Funny since Im not yet an uncle. And I doubt my sisters will be popping monkeys any time soon.

A theory in science is a model which unites facts, explains phenomenon and makes accurate predictions well outside of its intended field. Religion does not even come close to this.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Everybody needs to believe in something. It might be God or it might be the lack of God, It could be Jewism, Islam, Buddhism or a tiny race of shoe stealing purple cheese fairies. As long as your belief can help you face things or give you a reason for being or comfort you then who cares?
Atheism is a religion in the sense that it is a belief, it's something that people can put faith into. Religion isn't always about believing that there IS, it can be believing that there ISN'T.
Whatever your belief is doesn't matter. If you feel that it's right for you then nobody else has a right to say that you're wrong.

On Mock the Week, Andy Parsons said 'What if, when you die, you get to the afterlife and see all the Gods standing there with a card. Your God opens his card and written on it is 'BLUFF' how stupid would you feel?'
As long as you live your life as you see fit then if/when you meet God then you'll be forgiven. Nothing in says you have to believe, you just have to be the best that you can be

 

The human brain has been designed by natural selection to be fertile ground for the formulation of beliefs. In the savanna of East Africa it was more important to be a believer than it was to be a skeptical doubter. If someone in your hunting party said "There is a lioness in the grass behind you" it would have been unwise to be a skeptic, the same as when an elder showed you how to make a tool or how to weave. It was critical to our survival to be believers of people who have authority over us. Modern religion, and by modern I am going as far back as 5000 BCE, have taken advantage of the way our brains were wired up from birth by using the inherent acceptance of belief from an authoritative person. Beliefs are the precursor to knowledge, and I would hope that in the future humans will have sufficiently evolved enough to be rid of the need to believe anything, and that our descendants will evolve the capibilities to think rationally about the world. We no longer live in an environment where beliefs trump rational thinking. Rational thinking is a luxury that our ancestors could only afford once they had time on their hands and were settled. Religion always curtails knowledge because knowledge goes against listening to the wisdom of the elders, the traditions passed down from generation to generation that have been so very important to our survival ever since our ancestors were forced from the trees by the rising of the mountains in East Africa and had to survive in the relative openness of the grasslands.

Do you not think though that it is better to accept the truth that hurts than to continue to believe a lie that feels good? I myself would rather accept the truth that hurts than a lie that feels good.

Religion alters visual perception

Why the Catholic church can't ignore science

Born believers: How your brain creates God

 

Nope, as a race we always look for what feels good!

 

Well, I do have to agree with you on that, we are sensates by nature. Yet there is a lot of pleasure and good feelings from knowing things rather than believing things. The way biology makes me feel is unlike anything Ive ever experienced intellectually. But there are a few things I can think of that are more pleasurable than pure intellectual stimulation...smoking, tripping, drinking, and other things

 

Ah, so you are comforted by your belief in knowledge. Good on you

 

Nah, its more like I get a rush from knowing things most people dont. Knowledge is power, and power is everything. Also knowledge increases my awareness, and Im really into that sort of psychedelic stuff

 

Nataraja, I'd give you more rep for that East Africa thing if I could.

I'm confused now, whether this is just a wordplay about 'belief', or has some truth. Having something to base your reality on is necessary, to prevent you walking around like a confused fool, and being preyed upon by the first manipulator that crosses your path. In this way, you could say I derive 'comfort' from science, because we still haven't completely left the african savannahs, figuratively. It's human nature to seek safety in a herd, and blindly following its leader is a prerequisite. Christianity simply takes leadership of the resulting flock, and herds them like sheep into percieved safety/salvation. What I find objectionable nowadays, is that this outdated herd is now a potentially hazardous stampede in what is otherwise a peaceful meadow.

 

No, Coin, please continue. I'm in need some entertainment this morning (I have to speak with my broker later today).

Someone remarked that "Imagination was more powerful than knowledge." I think he may even have been a scientist....

I think CiG meant to say that the monkey was YOUR uncle (or so you keep telling us).

We don't need theory. We have God on our side.

You're really talking politics, rather than religion. You have to know how important religion is to politics and how important politics is to religion. That is why the American Founders sought to build a wall between them. And it takes a REALLY big wall to keep them apart.

But really, we are going to get off topic. The problem is that you want to connect evolution to almost everything, and in that sense you have the fervor of the most radical religious zealot. Everywhere you touch, it seems, it is important for you to make converts. You and Coin both claim to have a "special knowledge" that most others don't have, and that you are the "Enlightened" ones. And you also draw upon other authorities from whom you both have gleaned this special knowledge. Of course, most others are in ignorance, especially the ignorance of false belief. Thusly, they need your guidance and, you and your scientific Brothers - as authorities - to help them undertand the "Truth."

It seems that atheism has at least a few things in common with religion. Everyone needs some kind of authority. And we often just substitute one for another.

Nataraja - I do not mean to come across as harsh as I appear. I know that you have found pleasure in the dream of evolution. And as Silvery has pointed out, it fulfills the needs that you are searching for. That is not to say that it isn't true or that it is "false." It is only that you have assembled a reality in which you feel very much at home and comfortable in.

Someone mentioned the knowledge of the Greeks, or something like how they were really smart but they were "dated." That may be, but it seems that they believed that some of the important knowledge was "self-knowledge" - something like, "Know Thyself."

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You have met the wrong bunch of religious people. I know lots and lots of religious people, including Mormons like myself, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, and Buddhists. I'll admit that I don't know many Jews. But the vast majority of the religious people I've met do think about things, have very good critical thinking skills, and are quite willing to think about things. Many of them hold jobs that require significant scientific, mathematical, or reasoning knowledge and skills. They certainly do not have a pattern of "ingrained ignorance".

I'm not American, but if Americans are so bloody stupid as you insinuate, why have they created what is the biggest power in the world in terms of economics, military, and (arguably) human rights and quality of life?

 

I'm trying to picture you sitting there, mocking my every word with forced laughter. Not for a moment do you actually stop to think whether what I say has any basis in truth, since you've already determined that your trust in your government is entirely justified. So you challenge me to offer you some 'entertainment', to confirm your perception of reality. Silly ol' coin is utterly unreasonable, and his ideas are preposterous.
And you can't seem to understand why so many non-americans are willing to hear me out, and actually think about what is being said. 'It's worrying, it may be a sign of anti-americanism'. And you start to wonder if these kind of thoughts could eventually lead to terrorism. You've been very well indoctrinated, be proud.
While you sit at your PC, your government redefines the nature of the word atrocity, and you stand ready to give your full support to whatever vile plan they've thought up.

As you post your 'house of cards' thread, you never for a second wonder if some high-ups might be profiting from the situation. You happily blame the entirety of events on a bunch of uneducated people starting mortgage companies, and don't spend a moment to think about the officials who enabled it all to happen. Is it because the news reports never directed your attention to them, that you assume no foul play has taken place? It was all an unfortunate set of events, brought together by incompetence, greed and bad judgement.

And as small banks and businesses go bankrupt, and are bought up cheap by multinationals and bankers, the economic landscape freezes. Entering the recession, you never wonder for a moment if someone is profiting from deliberately provoked events.

I'll tell you what I believe: If you are unwilling to inform yourself, you deserve what you get. Have fun at your broker!

 

Coin - What's even more entertaining is your preconceived notions about what I believe (I used to work for Ralph Nader, but you may not be familar with him). If you wish to debate the "House of Cards," then you should do so on that thread. And, at the same time, take the time to actually see "House of Cards," so that you will know something more about its content.

If you really wish to know something about my feelings about my government and big business, (I suspect you really don't), I would suggest you begin with this link:



Really, Coin, I'll match my liberal/progressive credentials against yours anyday. Just try any of the political threads on this board, in a real debate, on a real issue. If you wish, try the "House of Cards" thread.