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Pope in Africa reaffirms "no condoms" against AIDS

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Nataraja, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. Saber

    Saber A revolution without dancing is not worth having! Veteran

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    Remove all ads!
    Chev, the point is, though, that regardless of whether or not you are supposed to wait until marriage to have sex, premarital sex is still happening. It will happen whether or not the Church forbids it. So the Church needs to adapt to protect its followers, not ignore the issue by saying that anything involving sex is banned.
     
    Saber, Mar 22, 2009
    #21

  2. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
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    This particular pope also said that The Beatles played satanic music. And that ACDC stands for Anti-christ Death to christ. The fellow belongs in the dark ages.
     
    Rawgrim, Mar 22, 2009
    #22
  3. Saber

    Saber A revolution without dancing is not worth having! Veteran

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    Seriously? Where did you hear/read that?
     
    Saber, Mar 22, 2009
    #23
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Probably the most important missed point in this thread is that dozens (hundreds?) of thousands of girls and women in Africa get raped during the constant skirmishes and wars there, or over idiotic mythical beliefs that sex with virgins cures AIDS, or in revenge attacks against whites. Africa is largely a developing country with the majority of the population at least a hundred years removed from the kind of cultural, ethical, moral and other standards that most of the Western world has adopted by now. What Benedict preached there might be somewhat feasible in the relative calmness of Europe, but preaching it in Africa is so far removed from the reality there that it sounds like a fairy tale (and has about as much practical application). Especially since AIDS isn't just starting to pop up in Africa, but has already infected a huge chunk of the population.

    Condoms certainly won't prevent rampant rape sprees in Africa, but in the situations where they can and should be used, they're by far the most practical and easily applied protection that can be used in Africa's conditions and would curb the spread of AIDS at least moderately. Telling people to just not have sex is the equivalent of relying on divine intervention.
     
    Taluntain, Mar 22, 2009
    #24
    Silvery likes this.

  5. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
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    Saber. I remember reading it before he got elected. Was one of the things people "had against him", sort of. He said that stuff before he became a pope though. In the 80s, if i remember correctly.


    Edit. POPE Benedict XVI tried to prevent his predecessor, John Paul II, from attending a Bob Dylan concert.
    The hardline pontiff makes the confession himself in a book due out next week.

    Dylan's booking for the 1997 church-arranged event raised eyebrows at the Vatican, given his history of drug abuse.

    Pope Benedict, who has labelled rock "the work of the Devil", said: "I had reasons to be sceptical and still am. I doubted whether it was in good taste to allow such a performance in front of the Pope."

    At the time, Pope Benedict was Cardinal Ratzinger and in charge of the powerful Congregration for the Doctrine of the Faith. A year before the concert he had said there were "diabolical and satanic messages" in much heavy metal music.

    He also warned the young against the "subliminal" satanic influence to be found in songs by the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Eagles, Pink Floyd, Queen and Led Zeppelin.

    Last year, he disappointed many at the Vatican by cancelling the traditional Christmas concert, which was a favourite of John Paul II's.

    His book, John Paul II - My Beloved Predecessor is to be serialised next week in an Italian religious magazine.


    Found this on google. It doesn`t contain the ACDC quote though. But there you go.
     
    Rawgrim, Mar 23, 2009
    #25
  6. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG] Please link to sources you post any material from here.
     
    Taluntain, Mar 23, 2009
    #26
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    The more I think about this, I still do not understand why the Catholic Church is against the use of condoms. (I'm sure Chev can explain this one.) According to Catholic doctrine, life begins at conception. So I can see why any form of birth control that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus would be against the rules. That would rule out things like the pill (both the daily and the morning after), depo, hormone patches, etc. However other froms of contraception work by preventing conception. Things like condoms and spermicide - if they work - prevent conception from taking place. There is no "life" that is being prevented.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Mar 26, 2009
    #27
  8. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That's easy. It's all explained here:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
    T2Bruno, Mar 26, 2009
    #28

  9. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    I can't see the video, but I'm gonna guess that it's this charming little ditty from Monty Python's Meaning of Life. I've spoilered it because the words are so heinous. Be warned!

    Monty Python
    Every sperm is sacred


    There are Jews in the world, there are Buddhists,
    There are Hindus and Mormons and then,
    There are those that follow Mohammed,
    But I've never been one of them...

    I'm a Roman Catholic, and have been since the day I was born,
    And the one thing they say about Catholics,
    Is they'll take you as soon as you're warm...

    You don't have to be a six-footer,
    You don't have to have a great brain,
    You don't have to have any clothes on -
    You're a Catholic the moment dad came...

    because...

    Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
    If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.

    Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
    If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.

    Let the heathen spill theirs, on the dusty ground,
    God shall make them pay for each sperm that can't be found

    Every sperm is wanted, every sperm is good,
    Every sperm is needed in your neighbourhood.

    Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
    Spill thiers just anywhere,
    But God loves those who treat their
    Semen with more care.

    Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    Every sperm is sacred,
    Every sperm is good,
    Every sperm is needed,
    In your neighbourhood.

    Every sperm is useful, every sperm is fine,
    God needs everybody's,
    Mine
    And mine
    And mine

    Let the Pagan spill theirs,
    O'er mountain, hill and plain,
    God shall strike them down for
    Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

    Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good,
    Every sperm is needed in your neighbourhood.

    Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great,
    If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.
     
    LKD, Mar 26, 2009
    #29

  10. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    It's almost as if y'all have never heard of wikipedia

    Which is also why masturbation is bad. It has nothing to do with that part of the Bible wherein God murders a man for the heinous crime of pulling out of his brother's widow and spilling his seed upon the ground. Nothing at all.
     
    AMaster, Mar 27, 2009
    #30
  11. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    This assessment isn't quite accurate, since the Catechism of the church is scripturally based. The scriptural basis for the article of the Catechism stating that all sex acts must be both unitive and procreative is found in the sin of Onan (and a few other places).
     
    Drew, Mar 27, 2009
    #31
  12. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    and now for a pictoral story from nearly every young man's past....

    :banana: :jawdrop: :eek: :nono: :o :deadhorse: :aww: :pope:

    :banana: :happy:
     
    T2Bruno, Mar 27, 2009
    #32
  13. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I just hope that the 6th one ("beating" a "dead horse") never applies to me. ;) :p
     
    Splunge, Mar 27, 2009
    #33
  14. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Nope. If people start committing suicide, the rest is bound to try to stop them, not to make suicide less bloody. Same when people get out to get a lethal disease.

    Because it's not man's place to meddle with creation and the passing on of life - although one could write pages and pages on it. Abortion is a greater evil, but contraception is an evil as well.

    Tal, you aren't going to hand condoms out to rapists. You won't tell people, "don't rape young girls but if you really must, then come and get a condom." You might as well arrest them as they come if you could get such an opportunity. You aren't going to hand out condoms to young girls so that they could ask a rapist to use one if they come to be raped. Condoms have nothing to do with rape. Condoms are used in consensual intercourse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
    chevalier, Mar 30, 2009
    #34
  15. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    You're completely missing the point. AIDS isn't a one way street. A (raped) woman who got infected with AIDS will pass it on during intercourse without protection just as well. AIDS isn't only spread by males or only maliciously or intentionally and few raped women will never have sex again afterwards. Just looking at statistics won't tell you that 1 raped woman who got infected with AIDS could infect 3 or 5 or more subsequent consensual partners, whereas giving them (or even better her, so that she could insist on them using them) condoms would prevent them from getting infected as well and potentially spreading the infection further.
     
    Taluntain, Mar 30, 2009
    #35
  16. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Yes, Tal, but that's why she shouldn't have sex. No one who knows he has a sexually communicable disease should have sex. The other party's consent just doesn't make it right. Even the lowered risk with a condom is too much. And if people don't get ested because of this or that financial reason... Let's put the cash in rape prevention and prosecution, and provide AIDS test to raped people. It's in their own best interest to know whether they have been infected.

    All in all, having sex only within marriage is the best prevention of AIDS or other sexually communicable diseases.
     
    chevalier, Apr 11, 2009
    #36
  17. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    So if a girl is raped and infected at 12 (or 20 or 30, for that matter), she should never have sex again for the rest of her life? Ideally, that'd work, sure... realistically, that proposition is as ridiculous as expecting the kind of purity they signed up for from every single priest. It doesn't happen with a good chunk of them and it happens even less with regular people.

    Especially in the middle of Africa, where most people don't even know whether they're really infected or not, or have access to even the most basic health service.

    And nowhere on this planet do people stop having sex just because they have a STD... heck, most don't even tell their partners about it or intentionally hide/lie about it, because no one wants to have sex (or even contact) with someone infected like that. That's human nature that isn't going to change any time soon.
     
    Taluntain, Apr 11, 2009
    #37
  18. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    OK, let me get this straight. Chev thinks that a woman who has been raped and infected should never have sex? Even if she fully discloses this fact to potential a partner, who, despite the risks, is willing to take the necessary precautions because (s)he loves her?

    Life is full of risks. As long as one is willing to accept those risks, and isn’t putting someone else at risk in doing so (whether that risk is of a health, financial, emotional or otherwise), who are we to say that they shouldn’t be allowed to do so?
     
    Splunge, Apr 11, 2009
    #38
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