Delaying quests in Chapter Two

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How many of the quests in Chapter Two must be completed before a majority of the monsters have been killed? Since the quests give so many exp, it would be worth the while to delay getting the exp for them and get exp by killing stuff first.

At least the following MUST be completed rather fast:
- Awaken Oswald (once he wakes up himself, this q is gone)
- Destroy Beetle Nest (to be able to rest in this map, equipment in there can wait)
- Learn how to open Ice Doors (you need to open them anyway to advance, might as well get the exp for it)
- Kill Remorhaz Queen (advancement again)
- Release Prisoners (otherwise they're sacrificed - no rush with Nathaniel)

How about Zack Boosenburry's information gathering quest, can it be completed before freeing him to get the q for it?

 

It's a clever idea; cash in XP for kills first, then move on to the next chapters. You can backtrack even from the end of chapter 4, returning to finish off quests when XP from kills is diminished by party level.
Just be careful to not forget, overlook, or disable unfinished quests this way. Missing out on the XP from just one or two of them may be enough to lose any benefits from this tactic. Ultimately, it's too complicated for my taste. I'll just level-squat a little, and pretend that the benefit came from this tactic, ok.

 

No, it wouldn't. You get a temporary boost, but in the long run you're the same level as if you'd gotten the reward at the proper time, which just so happens to be the same level as if you'd missed the quest experience entirely...

 

I don't quite get this logic.. So, one might as well ignore questing altogether and just let kill exp sort it out as you'll end up at the same level or thereabouts anyway?

The point of temporary boost is just that - reaching a bit higher level temporarily. Once you get to the high levels it doesn't matter either way, that's true. But it's precisely at the low to medium levels where just one or two extra levels earlier rather than later WILL make a large difference.

Edit: Captain Yurst at least waits you, bleeding and dying as he is, all the way until you're on your way back with the rest of the materials to repair the ship. Tested it yesterday.

 

When you get to the level where you have to release the prisoners, don't rest! Every time you rest, one of them gets killed. Make that on a priority to get the max XP for it

 

While it's technically possible to delay cashing in most of the early quests all the way until you reach the end of Chapter Four, the longer you stretch it the more prone it becomes to user errors. And, frankly, not much of actually *playing* the game at that point.

I'd probably do it this way:
- Awaken Oswald and handle the beetle infestation
- Negotiate the better deal with Beodaewn and THEN eradicate Andora
- Storm the Ice Temple exterior, getting q exp for opening doors and killing RQ
- Take the longest possible way around to the prisoners, killing everything else first, except for the Priest by the dais as she gives quest exp
- Storm all the immediately accessible parts of the lower level of Ice Temple
- Carry on with questing as you were, i.e. free Nathaniel and Zack, help Yurst, expose Beodaewn and so forth.

 

When would you do BattleSquares then?

 

The Battlesquares are an XP goldmine, and can safely be delayed until you leave for Kuldahar.

 

But your suggestion was to *delay* quest exp -- in other words, staying at a lower level temporarily.

 

There's a difference between gaining advantage NOW and planning a bit for the future. You sound like it'd be a good idea to pee in your pants when you're freezing - sure it'll warm for a minute, but after that..

In game terms: Get 10,000+ quest exp NOW and 2,700 exp per killed golem later, instead of 3,600 per? That's one average level's worth of difference. Can't remember if it was between avg level 8 and 9 or between 9 and 10. So sue me.

 

Delaying quest exp has exactly the same effect as minor temporary level squatting, though it's certainly less cheesy. You'll be a level (or less) behind for a while; then when you finally collect the quest exp you'll be a level or so ahead. Then dynamic exp kicks in and pretty soon you're exactly the level you would have been anyway.

 

To start with, you get pretty good xp for killing the beetles. I'd try and leave the nest for a while so you can whack yourself some creepy crawlies

 

Well, no matter how you twist and turn it, if you have more experience points at a certain checkpoint - say, at the very end of Chapter 2 - no matter how the dynamic exp turns the tables afterwards you can NOT end up with LESS experience down the road. Every exp gained earlier is exp you don't have to catch up with later.

Kind of in the same vein as "you'll just reach the point where you no longer gain exp from kills a bit faster". Sure it's true, but it's looking at it from a strange perspective. Surely you would want to reach your maximum attainable level (as per the level of mobs you're fighting) *sooner* than later?

 

Sure, but you're the one suggesting *delaying* gaining exp.

 

No, I'm not.

Repeat after me: It's not wise to pee in your pants when it's freezing. Neither it is wise to get quest exp right now, right here, if it means you'll get penalized for stuff you'll kill a minute later.

But yes, if all you can do is to have only to two minutes worth of perspective into the future, yes you should get the quest exp NOW. I'm just saying you'll be better off doing it the other way around in a while.

It's the same with quite many powergaming approaches: See dualclassing vs multiclassing in BG2 (early vs late peak in power) or level-squatting in IWD2. Blindly going I MUST GET IT NOW OR ELSE isn't always the wisest course of action.

 

It is if the extra level would make the battle a minute from now easier.


You're making this more complicated that it is. Delaying quest exp has the same effect as level squatting your entire party. What do we already know about level squatting?
- In the short term, level squatting hurts your party's effectiveness, because they are lower level than they should be.
- In the medium term, after you desquat, your party will be stronger ( higher level) than they should be.
- In the long term, because of dynamic exp, level squatting won't matter, because your party will be the same level as they would have been without squatting (*). The more you squatted, the longer it will take for this "long term" to arrive.

In this case, you're squatting about one level worth, max. The short term pain and the medium term gain are both minor. Most importantly, the long term comes quickly because you didn't squat much. So the gains from this tactic are nearly nonexistent.



(*) Of course, if the game ends before the "true" long term, then you've gained from squatting. For example, squatting a party to level 19 in normal mode is a clear win, because normal mode is supposed to end at level 17. But if that party continues into HOF, they'll reach level 21 at just about the same place an unsquatted party would.

 

Ok, THAT is an executive summary I can live with. Agreed on all points.

In terms of Chapter Two as a whole: It's worth 80k quest exp and in the ballpark of 40k to 100k in kill exp, depending on your level. Since about half of the quest exp already comes at the very end of it (prerequisites and stuff), you can only reasonably play with about 40k quest exp, tops. That's not even one full level's worth of exp for most six-man parties, but worth keeping in mind if you're aware of an increase in your average level in the span of next 40k worth of exp in to the future at least.

There's really not much point in delaying cashing in the quest after that, since most of Chapter Three is purely linear - you need to cash in the quests in order to advance the plot. You can't pre-emptively take care of the Cold Marshes and/or Hook Horror Caves, eventhough you really should if you could.

 

OK, time to resurrect this oldie goldie.

As I expected, the most quests you can actually delay are in Chapter Two, but since you can backtrack from the very end of Chapter Four (!) to cash in the quests, there's an actual incentive to keep them waiting until then. The sum total is about 36,000 exp (including killing all the required quest NPCs afterwards, but EXCLUDING Battle Squares), which is good enough for about half a level at this point of the game.

Therefore, by holding back the quests, you'll keep the current kill exp per monster for at least a half level longer than you would if you just cashed in them right there and then. Now, since you'll level up several times during the journey between Chapters Two to Four, you'll have plenty of time to let the dynamic exp system to "fill in the blanks" with kill exp. So, in effect, you get that 36k exp "twice" upon entering Chapter Five.

The quests that can wait until that long are:
- Rescue Captain Yurst
- Expose Beodaewn
- ALL the quests given by the gnome swallowed whole by a remorhaz (you'll need to talk to Nicodemus again to get quest credit for the "notes" quest)
- Free the Abishai
- Nicodemus's tales
- Pairi's budding Sorceress abilities
- Frostrose
- Fell Wood remains interred
- Everything in Battle Squares (but it's kill exp so SHOULD be tackled early - UNLESS you have the "skip battle squares" mod that just gives you 7,425 exp for skipping it)

While not really a quest, the Adventurer's Guide book (10,000 exp) can and should be delayed until the point you really want to have the exp available to you, by the same reasoning.

Rechet over and out.

 

if anyones curious i was able to reach levels 38 (level 40 patcher) , 20 , 18 , 18 , 16, 20, 20, 20 by the end of normal mode in tactics mod using extensive squatting, muling and exp siphoning but non of the infinite monster spawn tricks mentioned earlier. and yes thats eight characters- i had to "Store" a few due to them hitting their intended multi class point. by the time i finished HoF chapter 2 think most or all my chars would have been near 30 if not higher.

in retrospect i think it would have been much easier had i just played the game normally with 4 or 6 man party as i had essentially had a single character to work with for most of the game up until the xvim fight, albeit she was incredibly over leveled, (level 21 by the start of chapter 3). the first 1 chapter was impossibly difficult, the second somewhat, and the rest of the game was consistently with a regular game.

i had been meaning to get to my 4th play through using a similar strategy but with less or zero squatting/muling and maybe a 1-3 man party.