SoZ - The Out Cast

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Yes I noticed that, but a Bard who takes RDD and PM as Prc can end up with a +9 to their natural AC before equipment, skill increases, racial/selected amor bonuses. My Yuan-ti Bard in MotB had a natural AC of 27 without any equipment. Once equipped with Mithral Full Plate +6, a small shield +8, etc... his AC was into the 50's before any buffs. To say that the PM is underpowered is an unstatement given his bonus to natural AC, which I actually prefer. Yeah the PM is lacking in the spell progression area, but even just one level of PM for any spell caster provides a +2 AC and no lost in spell progression.

The bard build I used in SoZ is a power build as is the build I am working on in SoZ. I decided to see how power he would be at level 30, so I start him MotB and leveled him up to 30. I than created two magical Kuri's enhanced to +6 and elemental damage. My character feint his way to sneak attack and with feat to do 1/2 damage to creatures normally immue to sneak attacks, this PC was a wreaking ball to all that got in this path.

Race: Halfling
Class: Rogue/Fighter/Swashbuckler/Invisible Blade
Level: 16/4/5/5
Starting Stats: STR 12 DEX 18 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 10
End Stats: STR 12 DEX 26 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 10
1st level feats: Hero's Luck and Combat Expertise
3rd level feat: Feint
6th level feat: Power Critical (Kuri)
9th level feat: Improve Two Weapon Style
12th level feat: Greater Two Weapon Style
15th level feat: Improve Critical (Kuri)
18th level feat: Skill Focus Bluff
21st level feat: Great Dex
23rd level feat: Great Dex
25th level feat: Perfect two weapon style
27th level feat: Epic Precision
29th level feat: Epic Prowess
Bonus Fighter feats: Two Weapon Style, Weapon Focus (Kuri), and Weapon Specialization (Kuri)
Bonus Rogue feats: Slippery Mind, Crippling Strike and Expose Weakness

In fact, any build can be considered a power build if built correctly. I find many of the classes and Prc in D&D 3E/3.5E to be extremely powerful. One great example is the War Priest. In this game they eliminated his turn undead ability to provide power balance; however, in PnP the War Priest is able to turn undead. I would had loved to have my Cleric/Doomguide/WP with all the cleric abilities active with the expection of missing out on a few spell levels. But that would be powergaming, at least in my mind.

As I stated in one of my prior post, I prefer 2E to 3/3.5E due to the power balance in the 2E rule set.

All in all though, 3/3.5E make great rules for computer game, though I still believe some Prc are over powered and need some modification to bring balance to a game using the 3/3.5E rules.

 

many prc's are overpowered in Crpg's mainly do to the lack of a DM. Since most people play pnp with Rp in mind, many of the powerbuilds seen in NWN2 would never be allowed. for instance a bard taking pala master levels would probably need a very good rp reason in pnp, but in nwn2 you can just do it.

Personally i prefer to act as my own DM, I seldom actually play powerbuilds, unless the classes in the build can be justified RP wise. also the RDD is probably the single most broken class in game. Your cleric/WP/DG at least makes sense from an RP perspective, that cleric in general is the most overpowered class in 3.5 is another thing.

I prefer 3.5E over 2E. since 2E felt static and borring and casters was even more overpowered than they are in 3.5E. but epic levels in both aditions are completely brokken anyhows

 

I never played Epic in 2E because we as a group agreed to restirct the levels of demi-humans (elves, gnomes, dwarf, etc). We did however, increase the level limit that is in the DMG.

Toward the end of 2E there was a point system and we used it for a few gaming session before the group I played with all went off to college. The point system allowed each player to customize thier character; this includes special abilities from your race, class, etc... The point system provided balance to 2E; however, it was short lived and 3E was introduced. When I first heard about 3E I thought they were going to expand or continue the development of the point system; that never happened and I was turned off by the new system and it lack of power balance.

I happen to have all of the 2E manuals on my zip drive at my house. I wish I had a high end printer and high quality paper so I could print them off and maybe starting playing D&D again locally.

Enough highjacking the thread about 2E and 3E rules; what do you think about the build I have above?

Average Damage per a sneak attack hit....
Kuri - 1d4 (2)
STR - +2
Bleeding Wound +6
Sneak Attack - 8d6 (28)
Insightful Strike - +2
Weapon Specialization - +2
Elemental Damage Fire - 2d6 (7)
Elemental Damage Acid - 2d6 (7)
Total = 56

If all 12 attacks hit the character's average damage per a round is 672 HP. If the first attack is expose weakness, in 5 rounds if all 49 attacks hit the character will average 2784. This damage estimate is all based on none critical hits; the average chance of a critical hit for this character is 40% if not higher. This build is a Super Build.

Even if the enemy is immune to sneak attacks the damage per a hit would average out to

Kuri - 1d4 (2)
STR - +2
Bleeding Wound +6 [3]
Sneak Attack - 8d6 [14]
Insightful Strike - +2
Weapon Specialization - +2
Elemental Damage Fire - 2d6 (7)
Elemental Damage Acid - 2d6 (7)
Total = 39

If the enemy is immune to critical and sneak attacks the damage per a hit would be...
Kuri - 1d4 (2)
STR - +2
Bleeding Wound +6 [3]
Sneak Attack - 8d6 [14]
Insightful Strike - +0
Weapon Specialization - +2
Elemental Damage Fire - 2d6 (7)
Elemental Damage Acid - 2d6 (7)
Total = 37

If the enemy is immune to critical, sneak attack and elemental damage and has 10 damage reduction the damage output would be...
Kuri - 1d4 (2)
STR - +2
Bleeding Wound +6 [3]
Sneak Attack - 8d6 [14]
Insightful Strike - +0
Weapon Specialization - +2
Elemental Damage Fire - 2d6 [0]
Elemental Damage Acid - 2d6 [0]
Total = 13

Even at 13 points per a hit the maximum damage this character would do a 156 point a round. If only 40% of the attacks hit the character would do 63 points in one round. That isn't all that bad given the character is not even wielding a magically enhanced Kuri. Now if the character is wielding two kuri's that are +6 Admin and the other cold iron with the same elemental damage there is a greater chance of by passing damage reduction and increasing the damage output. This build is just a nighmare to most as long as he has can get his opponent off guard and flat footed.

 

it looks roughly like my rogue/cleric/invisible blade/ weaponmaster I think your build looks really good, it gets all the essential feats of rogue and have a higher bab. very nice.


Edit: you might want to cheack this out, its a nice new tool for building http://nwn2db.com/

 

I may submit this build in NWN2 Wiki page.

Added.....

On NW2 Wiki a received a recommendation to my build....

Rogue 16/Fighter 8/Invisible 5/SD 1

I would loose weapon finese and insightful strike but gain Hide in Plain sight and to two bonus feats from fighter would meet the requirement for a Shadow Dancer. Thoughts on this modified verison of my build? I loose out on 1 BAB but gain the ability/option to hide and attack again.

 

HipS is great for rogues and worth it. I assume you pick up weapon finese in some other way, since that is a must for any dex'er

 

I decided to trash my Invisible Blade Feint build; I was going to live off Feint, but after further review Feint would only work on NPC that have a really LOW BAB; in fact, the only way Feint would work is if the character using Feint would receive a bonus like the one the defender receivies from spot.

With that said I am looking into desiging a Sneak Attack build. Below are some options.

Rogue/Black Guard/Assasian/Invisible Blade
7/10/8/5
This build has 11d6 Sneak attack, 6 points of bleeding wounds and a BAB of 26.

Rogue/Black Guard/Invisible Blade/Shadow Dancer
16/8/5/1
This build has 10d6 sneak, 6 points of bleeding wounds, 25 BAB and 3 special rogue feats.

Rogue/Assasain/Invisible Blade
16/9/5
This build has 13d6 sneak attack and 6 points of bleeding wound. This build has a 23 BAB

Rogue/Assasain
21/9
This build has 16d6 sneak attack and a 21 BAB

Ranger/Assasain/Shadow Thief/Invisible Blade
11/9/5/5
This build has 8d6 sneak attack, 6 points of bleeding wound and 25 BAB

Rogue/Invisible Blade/Ranger/SD
21/5/3/1
This build has 11d6 sneak attack, 6 points of bleeding wounds, 3 bonus rogue feats, and 23 BAB.

Ranger/BlackGuard/Assasian/Invisible Blade/
6/10/9/5
This build has 7d6 sneak attack, 6 points of bleeding wounds, and a BAB of 27.

My favorite build is the Rogue/Black Guard/Invisible Blade/Shadowdancer; this build provides balance of sneake attacks, BAB, and bonus feats.

Thoughts and recommendations for a HiPS sneak attack builds?

 

rogue + assassin really is a waste, the assassin doesn't add anything good, in fact its bonus feats are the same as the rogues, so you loose feats on this. rogue +1 level SD beats rogue + assassin any day.

I agree with your favorite build, you could shift a level or two from rogue to BG to gain the mystical 26 bab I suppose.

 

Man did I go way off topic. I have to make sure the build I use can play from level 2-4 (depending on the class) through level 18 (max I believe). With that said I am still unsure what I want to use as my main PC.

I have the healer/tank in the Cleric/Doomguide, the thief/dual wielding specialist in my Rogue/ShadowDancer and the arcane craft in the Wizard/EK/ASoCK. I know the last character can be almost anything I want, but I'm not what I want of the leading PC build. Part of me says the leading PC should have the skills to move around the map with ease, spot the encounters, and have some conversation skills; I know the best way to get almost all of the skills would be a rogue/ranger combination.

Here are some possible builds....
Ranger/Asassain - x/9
Swashbuckler/Duelist x/10
Favored Soul/Stormlord x/10
Bard/Arcane Archer x/10
Fighter/Weapon Master x/10 - Great Sword
Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker x/10
Ranger/Blackguard/Shadowdancer x/7/1

 

ranger/assassin is a good mix. but imho the best overland character is a rogue, not a ranger and you allready have one of does

 

Below is the group I decided on...I decided on all humans for the bonus feat and the extra skill points.

Leader/Rogue/Dual Wielding Specialist
Class: Rogue / Cleric / Invisible Blade / Shadow Dancer
Current Level: 4/1/1 /0
Level 18: 8/4/5/1
Healer/Animal Tamer/Undead Specialist
Class: Cleric
Current Level: 6
Level 18: 18

Healer 2/Spear Master
Class: Favored Soul/Stormlord
Current Level: 6/0
Level 18: 8/10

Crafter/Arcane Scholar
Class: Wizard/Eldrith Knight/Arcane Scholar
Current Level: 5/1/0
Level 18: 5/10/3

I decided on Favor Soul as the final member to the party. I select FS/SL because I wanted to try out the Stormlord Prc and to provide the group with a second healer/buffer and 2nd tank.

I liked the idea of one of the PC having a pet but I didn't want to loose the ability to turn undead, so I selected Animal as one of the domains and sun being the other to improve the cleric turning ability. To continue with the animal and undead power of the cleric I will select feats that improve upon both skills of this cleric.

As for the mage, not much has changed.

As for the rogue; I decided on taking 4 levels of Cleric to gain the feats required to become a IB and to add some healing and buffing spells to my character's arsenal.

 

I would suggest keeping the cleric level at 1 and take more rogue levels in the first build, that way you get to the "magic" level 10 where you get the rogue bonus feats. the heals and buffs will not be worth it with only 4 levels. and 1 level of cleric, taking war/trickery domains should be enough to get you the IB levels at character level 5 (taking two weapon fighting at level 1 and weapon finess at level 3).

 

Actually I took Dodge at level 3 and Mobility at level 6. This way at level 7 I can take the Shadow Dancer level. As for the magical number ten I am considering that route, but if the total level of the game is 18 or higher I'm unsure if I would go leveling up as a SD or Cleric after magical number 10.

 

honestly, i would keep taking rogue, this character is a level 20 char max. 13 level rogue 5level IB 1 cleric and 1SD

EDIT: it could work in epic where I still would continue rogue levels, the other classes offer nothing