Prove it... My take on religion.

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So a little background is in order. For those of you who don't know, I was born and raised as a Mormon. That being said, I am no longer Mormon...or religious for that matter. When I "broke away" from the church when I was 16 or 17, there was a constant feeling inside me that questioned every shred of the faith's core. Nothing they claimed or preach can be proven. It's just accepted as "truth" by the other members. This goes for every religion.

The Mormons are famous for their touting of the Book of Mormon, but let's forget about that for consistency. The one thing all Christians have in common is that they believe the Bible to be true record of Jesus, his apostles, and their teachings.

Now to that, I simply say, "Prove it."

You can't quote Bible passages...because you can't prove that some drunken Pope from the 13th century didn't change, add, remove, or in any way alter the original text to his liking. And why not? In those days, you believed what the church told you to believe...or else. You can't prove that Jesus was some magical healer who died and then came back to life. You can't prove that the Bible didn't just start its life as a collection of myths, legends, and other fictional stories that a crafty group of people decided to bring together and publish as "truth".



The fact is, every time there was a war in ancient times and during the middle ages, history was rewritten, and the victor can rewrite it to his/her liking. The Bible and other religious texts are by no means exempt from this.

I'm not really sure where this is going other than; I don't know how so many billions of people can believe in something that can't ever be proven....

 

Can of worms, table 2...

 

I wish the Norse won all of the early wars, I would love to be a worshipper of Odin.... plus, I would probably be taller too!

 

No disrepect to Kitrax, but I have never understood why people without "faith" feel that people with "faith" must somehow prove it?

Obviously, I do not think it is possible.

 

As the boards sole practicing Mormon at this time (where the hell is Gnarff) I respond with a reiteration of Snook -- one cannot prove a matter of faith, and one doesn't have to.

That said, one should also not be a dick about sharing one's faith with others. I have always striven to be respectful of those with different beliefs than mine.

 

Faith is faith. It doesn't need to be proved or disproved. If people feel the need to believe that the universe is hemmed in by porridge or that the pyramids were created by a bunch of sausage eating, purple wearing, hairy cepahlopods then who cares? Who can disprove it? Why should you even attempt to? If it what gets you through the day and you aren't harming anyone (believe it or not, the majority of us religious folk aren't violent terrorists) then what's the problem?

If you strongly feel the need to disprove someones faith then maybe you should be taking a close look at yourself and your reasons for doing it

 

I don't ask people to prove their faith -- just to leave me alone. Well, that and if they're going to start preaching at me I try my best to completely destroy their arguments -- my entire family requires the subtlety of a sledge hammer, especially my father....

 

I think it would better stated that history is rewritten not by just the victors, but by the survivors as well... hence we have so many contradictory histories of "God"...

 

Not so fast, now. While I agree that the leaps of faith of various religions really can't be proven, there are quite a few key differences between the book of Mormon and the bible. There is enough outside historical and archaeological evidence to corroborate the existence of many of the people, places, and societies referred to in the bible. We have enough outside historical evidence, for example, to be pretty darn sure that Christ really did live and really was crucified under Pontius Pilate for sedition against the Roman Empire. The whole "son of God " thing and the resurrection are obviously a different story -- but we're reasonably certain he at least existed. Similar tests applied to the people of Nephi and other peoples in the book of Mormon haven't really turned up anything.

One book, in other words, makes unverifiable claims about people we're pretty darn sure existed, while the other makes its unverifiable claims about unverifiable people. The difference, in my mind, is a substantial one.

Actually, you can, since we have copies of the New testament dating back the 4th century, many fragments of which are even older. If someone "tweaked" the bible in the 13th century, we'd know.

 

I'm with T2Bruno here. My policy is "You don't bother me, I don't bother you". Just don't come bible/quran/any-other-holy-text thumping in my face and I don't care if you believe in pink unicorns or holy spaghetti monsters or not.

 

That's right. If winning wars were the criteria for religious beliefs, the Romans and Greeks would still have been worshipping Zeus and Jupiter, but instead, they adopted a Hebrew god, one of the most defeated people in history (especially at the hands of the Romans). In the end, the Hebrews were defined by their extraordinary ideas, and those ideas proved stonger than Roman swords.

 

Why should churches be tax exempt?

 

The Old Testament, as a whole, is one of the most heavily archeologically backed books in existence. As far as I know, nothing in it has ever been disproven, and more and more of the historical claims (wars, kings, treaties, etc.) are being supported by archeology every year. I recently read an article talking about the discovery of the ruins King David's Palace, matching the description of it in the Biblical record. A figure and structure long thought to be pure myth by archeology is once again proven true. The New Testament is much more about theology than history, but what grand history is presented has also been confirmed by archeology.

Now, did Moses meet a talking bush that burned without burning? Did Daniel last a whole night in the den of starving lions without even a scratch? Did Jesus really raise Lazarus from the dead? Science can never answer those questions, not even archeology. Unless you invent a time machine and go back to check it out yourself, no one on Earth will ever know for sure. From that perspective, the only possible response to "Prove it" is "Disprove it". Everything else is a matter of faith.

Shoshino, churches are tax exempt because they're non-profit entities, and most of them are charities on some level or another (soup kitchen, local community help, free counseling, whatever).

 

Plus, it allows them to save money that's needed to move the priests around after the parents find out they are trying to do bad things to their children.... I really dislike priests. If anyone out there has read the Black Company books by Glen Cook, particularly the "South" books, I REALLY like the character Blade's take on priests and what should be done with/to them.

 

Blades, remember that only a tiny minority of priests have even had accusations leveled against them. They just get all the news because they're supposed to be "pure". I don't agree with how the Catholic Church has dealt with the issue, but criticizing all priests for it is like criticizing all doctors because of the few that sleep with their patients, or take shortcuts in medicine, or spill medical secrets.

 

Yeah, but I wasn't just referring to the Catholic Church, but all Priests or better yet, Men of the Cloth or whatever you want to call the people who try to represent a religion as a speaker of their god/faith. It's not just the Catholics who have bad priests, their actions have just been in the papers more than others. I'm not a believer of God or any religious beliefs.

Edit: Spelling

Edit: I also believe many use religion as a tool to their own ends, not because they are true believers.

 

Blades, it's an even smaller portion of that extended community. Again, you are condemning an entire profession because a very few abuse the power inherrant in that profession.

 

Well, yes, your right, I am! Some of us might have opinions that can be more intimate, depending upon our own or our siblings experiences with priests. I have never had a good one. Even as a child. You can feed them all to the Crocodiles as far as I'm concerned.

 

I just want to make sure you realize there are such things as good pastors/priests/preachers out there. In fact, most of the ones I've know fit that description, and even most of the ones that aren't "good" aren't "bad" either.

 

Since i'm an aethiest, in my book, all priests get lumped together. End of story(for me). You can call them good, bad or whatever you like, I just don't trust'em.