Will This Be the Year I Like Soccer?

Remove all ads!

No aggression on this side mate.

You are correct in that the TEAM doesn't get relegated down to a lower league because American sports have developmental leagues that are sometimes referred to as "semi-pro" leagues. All of the professional teams already have these lower level teams under the parent organization, so after a bad year, you'll likely see some underperforming players go back for more development and some up and coming players advance to the pros the following year. American Football is also unusual among American sports in that they don't draft teenagers, which I'll explain a little later.

Baseball is probably the best example of the way Americans tier their leagues since it is easily the most structured. Baseball fields four distinct levels of play from the top level of competition to the lowest: pro baseball, Triple A League, Double A League, Single A League. There's only one pro league and one Triple A Leauge, but there are multiple Double A and Single A leagues in baseball, and some teams have multiple versions of Double A and Single A teams.

Baseball is also a sport where there is extensive scounting of players when they are still in school. While it is illegal to sign someone when they are still in high school, there are many baseball players that are signed by a team the summer after they graduate high school. If there are pro teams in Britain looking to sign 10 year olds, then I have to concede that the British are a lot different and may have their priorities misplaced.

However, even in sports like football where the vast majority of athletes are signed out of college, it is absurd to say that there isn't extensive scounting going on. Even college football is big business in the states (it basically serves the same purpose as Triple A leagues do for baseball). Pros extensively scout the colleges (especially the biggest programs), the biggest colleges scout all the best high schools of the state, and younger high school players that show promise will actually move so they can attend one of the high schools with a top football program in the hopes of getting picked up by a big name college.

We're doing the exact same thing as the British in terms of developing players and identifying talent - it's just that we move the PLAYERS instead of the TEAMS up and down levels. The details may be different, but the ultimate function of what the different league structures accomplish is similar. It's fine to say that you like the way soccer in Britain does it better, but it's arrogant in the extreme to say it's completely and totally superior to the American system just because you like it better, especially when you don't even have the courtesy to throw an IMO at the end of such statements.

Now that was kind of rude - there's no need to talk down to me - I'm a fellow sports fan.

 

One thing i will say is i love the NFL draft, it is one of the most amazing things in sport in the way player transfers are dealt with, once you get your head around how it all works it really is a very interesting system.

I never liked baseball i went to a few games but it really isn't for me, i hold no interest in basketball either and i never got the chance to really see many games of NHL either (i do like ice hockey however).

I actually in some ways prefer american football, of late i have become very jaded with english football and the dominance of the top 4, the media only caring about the premier league and the champions league, it wasn't always this way but as the years go by money is ruining football, this is to some extent mitigated in american football with salary caps and the draft system, this ensures at least a fighting chance for a lot of teams to get somewhere, This doesnt tend to happen in football, the clubs with the money buy all the best players and everyone else just buys whatever is left.

Even so i will still watch west ham week in week out hoping for an F.A Cup win or a trip to europe knowing we aren't the best but we can bloody the nose of the big boys every once in a while.

 

The salary cap does help in the NFL, but the other thing that helps is that there is not only a spending limit, but there is also a spending minimum in the NFL. Just saying you cannot spend over $X would not guarantee that all teams would remain competitive and try to sign talent. By saying you also have to spend at least $X, means that all teams will have to spend some money to retain star talent.

I do like the draft system in the NFL, but I don't actively watch the draft. It just takes too long, and most of the guys selected after the first round you don't really care about, especially if they don't play for your team.

 

It wasn't meant to be a rude comment. Just that it's patently obvious that the structure of the game and the way it works is totally different over there. The way it works is almost polar opposite, so I don't see the point in trying to explain the differences, because you'll never really understand the way football works totally, because you're looking at it from an Americans perspective.. just like I'm sure I'll never fully understand the whole American sports system, because I'm looking at it from my perspective... it's obvious that it's all completely and totally different, so I don't see the point in trying. We'll both be banging out heads against a wall.

Football is still better and has better and more passionate support though! So ner!

 

Well that I can agree with. If that's all you were trying to say from the start, then I apologize if I misinterpreted your comments. Sometimes written text does not convey the intent like you get from actually talking to someone, and that seems to be the case here.

 

Haha - it's fine don't worry - I sometimes have trouble projecting my meaning properly, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

Cobblers. Go and watch some Yankees or Dodgers fans support their team and tell me they're more not passionate than a Chelsea supporter. Another example from American sport is the way they support their college teams. The fanatical support of college sport is in the same, er, ballpark, as what you describe for 2nd division local soccer teams in England.

The professional soccer leagues in England haven't been around THAT much longer than the sports competitions in America. The Football Association was started in 1863 and the first professional baseball league started in America in 1871. So stop blabbing on about your sport having a 'richer' history, when clearly it doesn't. So ner!

Anyway, when it comes to passionate support, neither Americans nor Englishmen are tops. Go to India and watch some cricket and you'll see who really treats their sport like a religion.

 

Harbourboy football teams have been around much longer than 1863, Notts County were formed in 1862 and that's just professional teams.

 

Crowleyhammer - but not so many centuries longer to support Barmy's point that they somehow have a 'richer' history than American teams.

 

Oh give over Harbourboy, you love to blow up and exaggerate stuff I say to support your own opinions. I'm sure you wait till I post just so you can jump on me. You don't seem to post must on anything else!

 

But they do have a richer history, The F.A Cup is the worlds oldest football cup competition, to win that means the world to clubs in England, the champions league, winning this will get your team recognized and take you down in history not just in your own country but in all European countries.

If i wear my west ham top in a european country i have people coming up to me knowing who's team shirt i am wearing, they know the history behind it.

If i wear a green bay packers jersey(ugh) no one will know who they are, Its not about history you have made in your own country!!! Moore, Hurst, Peters, names that will never be forgotten.

 

Exactly.. the FA Cup gives local part time amateur teams the chance to play against the £100k a week superstar players in the best teams. No other competitions have that really. It's not all about a dozen or so teams and that's. PLAYERS come and go but TEAMS remain. Well said crowley.

 

Um... why not? That's where you spend most of your time. Why would you wear a jersey of someone who is virtually unknown in your own country? (Although I will concede that the average European has the opportunity to visit more foreign countries than the average American.) If I wear a jersey of a premier league team around here, no one will know who they are. How would that be better than wearing a jersey of a baseball or football player who everyone knows?

Names that will never be known in the US. (I really think it is about the history you have made in your own country.)

 

But America is very insular, that's the difference really.

 

When i came over to america last season for the west ham vs columbus crew (what a name ) pre season friendly, they definitely knew who we were, and they definitely knew our history!!!!!!! (maybe not our on the field history as much as our off the field history )

 

I'm not sure if it's different at the club level really but it definently becomes different at the international level, and there the difference is really quite big. The only sport where Americans could have similar feelings is ice hockey and even that has sort of weakened after the Soviet Union fell apart. In Europe old rivalries between nations wake up in the form of a sport competition and the day afterwards the papers make up cheesy headlines making comparisons with some historical battle or war or something.

I would claim that the history between US States are nowhere as rich (or as chaotic, bloody, tragic) as the history between many European nations. There are no wars, no old battles there simply is nothing. The big US sports are mostly domestic and not capable of waking up the same patriotic passions that an international field could.

On the club level I would agree that I can't really see any logical difference, before we hit the international level. But then I come from Finland and we utterly suck at Football anyhow.

 

The more this thread goes on, the more Aldeth is the only one taking a balanced view.

It's laughable that you raising the FA Cup as an example of your rich passionate history. Manchester United didn't even bother playing their full strength team in the FA Cup this year - which shows what an highly sought after competition that has become.

But my main gripe is the way you're bagging the American competitions as having no history. It's only because you are completely unaware of the rich tradition and history of American sport! You talk about Americans being insular, yet you are insisting that Bobby Moore and Geoff Hurst are somehow more legendary and unforgettable than Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio. Or Michael Jordan.

There's no way you can support an argument that American sport has a less rich history than English soccer. No way. I'm with Aldeth on this one. At least he is prepared to concede that he is unfamiliar with some aspects of English sport.

 

Do you even read the posts properly? I've already conceded I know little about American sport, and that because football and American football are so completely different and we can't help but look at the other from our own perspective, there's little point arguing about it. Aldeth agreed, and as far as I was concerned, that was the end of it. There really is no need to get aggy.

Also, you seem to be getting crowley and myself mixed up. It helps to read through things properly. American Sports 'are' insular, because no-one else plays them. Deary, it's a losing battle with isn't pal, you only read what you want to read. You're hard work sometimes old bean, I bet your old lady has a job on!

 

My comments were directly at both you and Crowley. But if you are accepting that American sport might just have as rich and passionate a history as English soccer, then that's good that you've come around to seeing Aldeth's point of view.

To get back to the original question then, it appears that the one thing we do agree on is that this year is unlikely to be the year that Aldeth likes soccer.

 

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised, considering you were at a soccer match! Of course they'd know a bit about one of the world's more famous clubs. Just like baseball fans in Japan and such would know who Babe Ruth and the Yankees were.

I like the setup of the FA, it gives a little bit more importance to the games if you know you can be sent down to a lower level. The closest thing that America has to it is baseball, and that is just due to tiers and development.

In baseball as Aldeth said there is MLB, AAA, AA, A, and Rookie leagues. With each MLB team having one AAA team under it and I think just one AA team with multiple A and rookie league teams. Each parent team has up and around 200 players in their system (including all levels). Add in that the baseball draft is really a crapshoot, and players taken in the 40th round are often turn out as good as those in the top 10 rounds. It really takes some scouting to find those players. Furthermore international players can be signed to contracts as early as age 16, which is similar (but not as extreme) as English football. Another important note, is that when these players become professional baseball players, they are still usually 3-7 years away from reaching the major league squad. This is definitely a lot more like it is across the pond because there is a ton of development done at lower levels. Throw in that baseball has no salary cap and it is definitely the closest to the English football tier system...

I will note that I do not like baseball too much due to the time in between pitches

Other American sports use the draft and salary caps in order to level the playing field, because over here we like to think that every team has a chance. Furthermore, the late age for players to become eligible for draft/free agency, is do to a belief over here that it is more beneficial for the players, less flameouts with no life skills.

And yes, I do agree that this won't be the year Aldeth likes soccer.