Carter's Racism accusation

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A: http://lmgtfy.com/
B: I'm confused. You're asserting that no no, you understand we don't think all the protestors are racist. But you want to see " 1 : a superiority in weight, power, importance, or strength
2 a : a superiority or excess in number or quantity b : majority" before you'll acknowledge that racism plays a role? How does that work?

(Oh, you are aware that the 'two million person march' (lawl) was more like fifty thousand, right?)

 

As I said, I can't prove that it doesn't happen. The negative is unprovable. It's up to those who claim racism is a factor to prove it.

That being said, though, Google brought me a bunch of articles on Carter and this. The summary of the article is that people project their history onto the current crisis. Those who have lived through racism see racism while those who haven't don't.

Woops. I thought that meant something slightly different. Thanks for the catch, AMaster. I meant a ready supply of them, i.e. more than one or two nuts who made the news.

Not according to the news.

 

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/size-matters-so-do-lies.html

The original report.

Nice one, protestors. Or more accurately, nice one, Matt Kibe, you enormous douchebag.

 

The news. Really. I could cry right now.

The "news" in this case is a conservative blog, written by a self-described "foot soldier of the Reagan Revolution" who credits both Michelle Malkin and Instapundit for his story. How egregiously wrong all three parties got this story almost seems beside the point. And in another topic you linked to a World Net Daily article.

I don't know that I could articulate an argument detailing the biggest problem with the conservative movement right now better than what this one post has just demonstrated.

"The news." Sweet jesus.

 

DR,
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That's just some of my favourite headlines of today. The liberal mainstream media never reports on that.

 

Wow, thanks for the update on that one. More research shows it's even more complicated. The organizers are now estimating 600-800K, still vastly more than ABC reported, and the official agencies have said they don't even have any official estimates, and that whoever talked to ABC did it without authorization. Also, I find it odd that even the Metro-rail system doesn't have numbers, since they had to sell tickets to everyone using the rail (which was completely overcrowded).

Regardless of how many actually showed up, my point stands unchanged (that not being that a large crowd showed up, but rather that the vast majority weren't there because of racism at all).

Actually, the 'news' bit was more talking about them quoting ABC News (albeit badly it would seem, but I just googled it).

Umm, actually, I linked to The Examiner.

 

And I replied to DR.

 

Ah, I see what you did. Ok. It looked to me like you were indirectly criticizing my use of World Net Daily, which confused me, because I didn't use them.

 

But you did in another topic, which is what I said. It was a critique on the news sources you rely on. Not that it matters. I can't prevent points from being missed any more than I can prevent people from misinforming themselves. I've come to a number of sad realizations lately. On that note...

 

DR, I rely on Google. Maybe that's my problem.

 

I'll give DR that he didn't err on such an egregious site as World Net Daily. Sadly the Examiner is not all that much better.

Owned by a Christian fundamentalist, who helped founded the fabled Discovery Institute, the Examiner for example reported the tea bagger march on Washington to be 2 million strong, whereas it was in fact more like 70.000. Maybe enthusiasm got the better of them. When I then also read outright hostile editorials like that: EXAMINER HOT ZONE: Does Obama think Americans are so gullible? Examiner Editorial, September 10, 2009 I get the idea. The whole thing is a web tabloid, and far from being an unbiased source.

In that sense, even when DR erred on the source in your last point, his larger point remains valid.

 

As I said, I relied on Google.

As for the numbers, again, there aren't any official numbers, and the various video clips and panoramic photos suggest a lot more than 70,000 to me (and apparently to many others).

Again, I'd like to see some statistics from the transit department, or whoever runs their metro rail. Even though it wouldn't be 100% accurate, you could get a rough estimate, and determine if 70K, 700K, or 2M is a closer guess.

 

The problem is actually that you use google to look for information that backs up viewpoints you already hold -- and, in doing so, you discount facts and sources that disagree with what you are trying to prove -- instead of using google to find out what the facts are to begin with and using those facts to form your opinion. You need to go to the facts first, and then form your conclusion.

 

You know that wide angle lenses have that effect, to make crowds appear larger, make buildings look more distant and make streets appear wider?

The Washington DC Fire Department made a count and said it were 70.000. Even the organisers of the march themselves, Freedomworks, now quote that number and don't dispute it, even corrected their previous number by subtracting those 930.000 to 1.930.000 - depending on whether they claimed it was one, one-and-a-half or two million marching. They've been far, far off.

 

I think the point that some have been making is that racism was a small part of the event of this foolery. If it was even a small part, then Americans should be disturbed by it, and there should be further investigation into how large a part racism is playing into the tea potter's movement, so that it can be eliminated altogether. If I was a part of a movenment, regardless, of good intention, that had elements of racism, I would think carefully before lending my support.

As for the "movement" itself, it is a collection of sore losers, orchestrated by corporate lackeys. It's a disgrace that they dishonor the Founders by assuming for themselves the mantle of the true Sons of Liberty, and what was accomplished by genuine patriots and better men than those frauds, playing dress-up in their colonial costumes and phony wigs.

We had an election in this country, which the founders fought with great peril and difficulty to themselves to bestow upon us. Now, these imposters, with their foolery, disrespect the process and the democratic elections, in which the majority of citizens have made their desires known. And instead they make fraudalent claims about Obama's credentials and Constitutional right to be our president.

They are entitled to their protest, and they can have an oppostition party to the one in power. All that is well and good for our democracy. Yet, they choose to be frauds, to misrepresent the facts, and do so in the most disrespectful manner, with knavery, instead of dignity. If they wish to be "model citizens," it can be said they are, in that they are only tiny imitations of the real thing.

Flame suit on.

 

Well stated, Chandos. Regardless of your position on an issue, I believe that it is important for people to express their opposition to things politely and respectfully. There are far too many on both sides of the fence who fail to do this.

I acknowledge that there is no legal reason to be respectful (though in the corridors of power certain rules of etiquette are enforced) but IMHO a moral and social reason exists. I lose respect for people who protest disrespectfully. It makes me less likely to listen to their position. These tea party people are utterly bizarre individuals -- to be honest I'm not sure what they are really protesting -- it's not like Obama came in and hiked taxes -- if they had a problem with the taxes why didn't they march on Bush?

Some would say their present protests are racist in nature, but I see them as more political. They would have marched just as vociferously against Hillary or any other Democrat. But IMHO they are just totally missing the mark. They are making me seriously consider starting to cheer for the Democrats.

 

In fact, he cut their taxes. However, he omitted the rich from the tax cut, which I'm sure was a big "sin" against capitalism for them.

 

No, the problem is that I used the first link that popped up on Google instead of looking around for something from CNN, ABC, or the like. Again, Drew, you assume too much.

Yes, I do, which only raises the uncertainty. Regardless, though, I've walked through the streets these photos are of, and they're big.

And now it seems you aren't doing the research, Ragusa. Again, the DC Fire Department made no official estimates. In fact,

Now, unless either that was way off, or Lafayette Park was essentially the entirety of the march, it was noticably more than 60K.

Chandos, I'll agree that investigation is needed (independant, not politically motivated from either side, nor official gov't). What I disagree with is that there is anything alarming here. Racism has been in the US for a long, long time and, while I think it's mostly gone, any trace is obviously going to rear it's ugly head from time to time. It doesn't corrupt the whole movement, though, for a few nut jobs to be carrying signs with racial slurs on them.

If you're talking about the Birthers, I'll agree with you. The problem is, Carter was talking about opposition as a whole, and there's plenty of that that is perfectly legitimate. The march, for example, was apparently primarily about economics (this from my brother-in-law, who attended).

As for respect, I'll agree that a certain amount of respect is inherrantly due the position of President. I argued it for Clinton years ago, it was true for Bush in his time, and it's true for Obama now.



EDIT:
For something of a different, hopefully calmer look:
Change Player Size Watch this video in a new windowHundreds of Thousands to 1.2 Million People Protest Big Government, Barack Obama in Washington D.C.
It's an NBC report on the march. Apparently even there, there was disagreement as to the numbers, somewhere between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands. Additionally, pay close attention to 2:16. I don't think racism was a noticable factor.

 

Type "white power" into your search engine and you should be able to find at least 100 groups currently in operation. The Klan is still probably the most known of these, but there are also neo-nazi groups that are connected with them. The Klan itself is much smaller than it was early in the last century. But still, some of these groups operate out of the prison system which is rife with hate groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group

 

I can't tell if you simply being obtuse for sake of the argument, you are so naive that you really believe this, or that you are also biased and will refute racism exists to further an odd agenda (I would be quite surprised if the latter was true) -- or a combination.