Party composition

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I'm finally going to try TOEE and I'm thinking about my party. I plan to use just my 5 PCs and not mess with NPCs. Therefore, I plan to do:

Fighter
Ranger/Rogue (for locks, etc. but I heard you don't need a full rogue? so Ranger for ranged attacks?)
Wizard
Cleric

For my fifth slot I'm wondering if I should make a Bard for support and party spokesman (and ranged attacked?), or should I do another front line fighter? Is a Bard any good anyway?

I know in games like BG2 it was very helpful to have at least two melee fighters, but that was also with 8 party members. In TOEE, is one enough?

Thanks!

 

Really, it depends on your play style. The bard's song is nice for general support, but I personally find their spells somewhat underwhelming. Bards are okay for ranged attack with crossbows, but need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Reload to be effective, so they'll be burning all their feats on archery. (This is true for any archer, by the way.) So, I think a mixed rogue2/rangerX is a good ranged build - and you'll probably only need one ranged support character.

Since you have a cleric, he can make for a fine support front liner. One suggestion I have is to give your fighter high DEX and the combat reflexes feat + great cleave (and possibly a reach weapon). I've found that a single fighter can often mop up several enemies in a single round with that build.

 

Thanks! I hadn't been thinking of my cleric as a fighter also, for some strange reason.

As for Rogue2, would it be better to go 3 levels and get the extra sneak attack damage, or is that irrelevant since he'll mainly be a ranged attacker anyway? Is the second level mainly for Evasion (and skill points)?

And since I won't do bard, is a Barbarian good for the 5th slot, or do I not need another melee fighter? Edit: Hmm, now I'm thinking a Monk or Paladin might be cool too, and perhaps more useful? Ugh, decisions!

Edit: without the Bard, who would be the best spokesman for the group? I'm thinking maybe the Rogue/Ranger, since he has the skill points to spend on the Diplomacy/Sense Motive/whatever else I need? The CHA will be low though, probably.

 

Yeah, the Rogue2 was for evasion primarily. You could go to three for the extra sneak attack. Although, to sneak attack with a ranged weapon the enemy will have to be flatfooted. So, Improved Initiative comes in handy there.

It won't hurt to have another melee fighter, but it's not absolutely necessary. I usually like to have at least one "fun" character who I try new things with. One of my favorite builds is a Ranger2/Barb2/Fighter8 who dual wields cleavers! But, a monk or pally would be okay too. Personally, paladins are one of my favorite classes, I think they are somewhat underpowered in TOEE due to some sub-par abilities when compared to straight damage dealing classes. That may just be my opinion, though.

I hope I didn't make bards sound horrible! I didn't mean to. Rogues can make decent spokesmen if you don't use a bard, although having a decent CHA (14 or so) probably would be necessary. If you really don't know what to do with the open slot, I'd say go ahead and use a bard. Lots of skill points, the songs are good, and you can use grease, hideous laughter, etc. on enemies.

 

I used a Rog3/Ran7 as my speaker, she worked out well. Bard isn't necessary, though they are fun to play. Try a Sorcerer or Druid. I really liked my Druid, who was a pureclass. I thought my Human Paladin was a better tank than my Dwarf Fighter, as he had a better AC as a Longsword & Shield wielder. Also, I really like his added spellcasting and abilities. I like more options! Fighter can be boring at times, though I agree that a Pole-arm wielding Fighter with Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes and High Str is a terror in melee against low HP/low AC opponents. I just found I liked the better AC characters against some of the games Tougher opponents. But to each their own.

 

Thanks for the advice guys! I decided to do a Fighter4/Paladin6 build, and I got really lucky with the stats too. A couple of 18s, a couple of 16s, and nothing less than about 11 or 12! He's definitely my spokesman too.

I went with a Barbarian for the 5th slot. I'll see how that goes....

P.S. Already encountered the loot bug! Patch 3 does not work and the game won't even start with it. I had to use Moebius' patch.

Correction: My Paladin has two 18s, a 17, and 16!

 

Spoiler

I completed the game without a rogue. I don't think you really need them.

Never tried a Bard. I prefer someone who is good at something rather than someone who is mediocre at a bunch of things.

I think one is enough. One of my parties consisted of a fighter, cleric, druid, wizard and sorcerer. It just depends on the rest of your party. I do recommend that you have 3 of your 5 characters be melee types. Clerics do well enough. Ranged characters need a lot of feats to remove a bunch of negatives to attacks.

 

One bit of advice. I've found spell scrolls are troublesome enough to get in ToEE that I much prefer the sorcerer over the wizard.

 

Though in this game, your wizard also picks spells at level up, which pretty much evens out with the Sorcerer in that regard, though the Sorcerer can cast more often per spell level per day, Wizard gets to the spell levels quicker. If you are using the level cap, IMO, Wizard was the better choice. Removing the level cap with Co8, I preferred the Sorcerer.

 

I seem to recall that the sorcerer learns more spells over the levels as well, but I'm not sure.

 

They both do in a sense. But with picking spells at level up and scribing spells from scrolls, the Wizard will always have a much bigger selelction, while still having the ability to customize to the players needs. The Sorcerer is much more limited in that respect.

 

You are incorrect. If a wizard never finds any scrolls ever, he will have the following number of spells known:

Level: Spells
1: 3+Int
2: 5+Int
3: 5+Int / 2
4: 5+Int / 4
5: 5+Int / 4 / 2
6: 5+Int / 4 / 4
7: 5+Int / 4 / 4 / 2
8: 5+Int / 4 / 4 / 4
9: 5+Int / 4 / 4 / 4 / 2
10: 5+Int / 4 / 4 / 4 / 4

A sorcerer gets the following:

1st 2 — — — —
2nd 2 — — — —
3rd 3 — — — —
4th 3 1 — — —
5th 4 2 — — —
6th 4 2 1 — —
7th 5 3 2 — —
8th 5 3 2 1 —
9th 5 4 3 2 —
10th 5 4 3 2 1

It looks like the wizard has more spells known to me. Besides, how hard it is it to find scrolls? Just go to a magic shop and there you have it.