Shouting is the new spanking

Remove all ads!

All of my siblings, myself included, were spanked as kids by both parents, but it was usually my dad. He only did it if we were being *really* bad, and we knew were being bad. The possibility of getting our buts spanked was a good deterrent for getting into mischief.

My mom's technique was twofold, her first warning that we needed to calm down was threatening to sing... (She's been in the choir for 40+ years and can sing very nice...however, she can also butcher a church song we all hated at will)
If we were doing something really bad, and she could stop us on her own, she'd call in my dad to handle it, and afterwards, she would give us the guilt trip (my mom is famous for her guilt trips...she could reduce a grown man to crying for his mommy if she really wanted to). After the guilt trip, we felt like crap for hurting/disappointing her, that it stuck in our heads that we shouldn't do bad things, because sincere disappoint by your mom is the worst feeling you can have as a kid.

Now, as for your comment about my parents doing something horribly wrong...you need to watch what you say about other people's parents, and the way people were raised. You only have your personal experience of how you were raised. I personally think my parents did a damn good job of raising 5 children (4 boys and 1 girl). I never touched a drop of alcohol until I was 21, I've never been arrested, and looking back on my life, my parents handled my "bad" moments as their parents did with them...and I would do the same damn thing to my future children.

One thing I found odd in the article, was that they found that spanking can mess with the kid's head if it's done very early in life...as in <2 year old. To that I say, who the F*** spanks an infant?!?! We've all heard of the "terrible two's"...but I think that's way too early to spank a child.

 

What both of you describe is not something I would put under spanking nor is it something that I think is actually illegal or what people are talking about when they lament the problems with spanking.

You can however with your argumentation justify much harsher things and why this discussion is so stupid. I do not think anyone really laments harsh talkings to or a slap on the wrist. Just as it is illegal to hit adults it is illegal to hit children but you would not get prosecuted if you slapped someone's hand if they were trying to sneak fries from your plate. What you guys are arguing for though is to give a legal excuse for people who do beat their children, who think it is ok to give their children concussions all in the name of "discipline" or teaching the child a "lesson".

 

A very meager truth. It's a proverb from the Bible. Some of this is outdated thinking (if it's thinking at all).

My 1 year old already understands "NO" and he knew it at about 8 months. He was just in my office, trying to grap the computer mouse as I was typing this. When told him "no," he stopped and went over to my drums (he's waiting for our practice session). But he certainly understands the meaning (what is meant) by the word "no." Both of my girls understood it in their first year as well.

That is a very valid point and it travels both ways. Not every parent needs to "spank" their kids either, despite how those who use spanking were raised.

 

Whoa there.....your lawyer logic is twisting what we’re saying...it’s almost like the Salem Witch Trials where anything the accused said was twisted so that it seemed that they were evil. You can make anything sound bad if you twist logic and put words in to people’s mouths.

I never said people who beat their kids aren't doing something illegal. HOWEVER, a few open palm slaps on the butt that don't leave a mark for more than a minute is *not* beating a child. If you're giving a child a concussion, you're out of control, and the child should be removed from that household, and you should be prosecuted.

 

I don't think so, unless you mean to say two different degrees of violence. I would agree with that.

 

What Kitrax said.

I may have quoted the Old Testament but I never implied that giving your child a concussion could be justified in any way. Seriously.

 

Personally I think spanking is habitual, you were spanked as a child and so you go on to spank your child, and it must be okay since it did not hurt you when you were brought up. In my opinion it's just plain intellectually lazy parenting. As I said earlier though I'm not a parent myself so these opinions are subject to change when I get first hand expirience in raising kids.

 

Actually, I know several people who say they were spanked as a kid, and now they swear that they will never spank their (future) kids. One of my friends claims to have never spanked his 10 year old son once in his life...however, with his younger son, he admits he spanked him several times over the past few years...the kid is 5 years old now.

 

Argh, back into the terminology jungle.

Spanking, as I see it in the context given here, is a proverbial slap on the wrist kind of mild but stern display of disapproval. Using it as a term for anything that causes bruises, cuts or bleeding or even worse is just begging for a derail and confusion. The latter is violence, no two ways about it, and should lead to prosecution.

 

You are correct, and that is the way I make the distinction. However, you will find that many do not see any difference between the two.

 

Then what, exactly, would you call it? Everyone I know calls that spanking, and the only people I even know of that would refuse to call it spanking are the people who are desperately attached to the idea that "spanking" is bad.

In some places it is illegal. It is also what the bulk of the anti-spanking people seem to mean by "spanking". We aren't talking about beating a child. There's a word for that, and it's "beating".

No, that's only what you and others read into such arguements. Let me put it this way: if it even leaves a bruise (much less any more serious injury), it is abuse and the parent should be jailed. If it reddens the skin, but no more than that, it is a severe spanking, and should be reserved for the most extreme cases. If it's anything less, it is ordinary spanking.

"Understand" and "listen to" are two different things, however. By age 3 or so, if "no" has never been reinforced with any punishment (when appropriate), it can start to loose it's power.

Indeed, though I think "need" varies more with the child than with the parent. What will work wonders on one child will be shrugged of by another, and some children may not respond to anything other than immediate physical punishment. I'm merely advocating that it belongs in the tool-box, not that it's the only tool you should own.

All I can say is, when you do become a parent, keep your options open. It may really change your mind. I think you ignore the topic by claiming it's "habitual" and "intellecually lazy", when in reality it's a valid technique. As Kitrax says, there are people who were spanked as a child who swear they'll never do it. There are also parents who were never spanked who find it a useful tool. There are parents who will spank one child and sit the other in a corner for 10 minutes (my parents' technique). It's not an automatic reaction, and if it is it's a sign of a dangerous parent (if any discipline is so automatic, it's a problem).

 

Yes, and it's always good to heed your own advice when you also become a parent and find out for yourself.

 

I don't know which reality you live in, but it seems to be different from mine. Spanking in my country is ILLEGAL, which obviously makes it a non-valid technique.

 

@Morgoroth:

I don't know which version of Finland you live in, but spanking as discussed here has never been illegal to my knowledge. Child abuse and beating are, yes, but that's quite a bit more severe than spanking.

 

If you talk about spanking in smacking him to the bottom with a paddle or bare hand, then yes it is illegal and considered a form of child abuse. I know it's not illegal in all places but it is illegal here, so to me spanking as a method of raising children is irrelevant.

 

Oh don't worry, I will.

No, it makes it an illegal technique, not necessarily an invalid one. Of course, that depends on your definition of 'valid', but if you mean it achieves the intended goal (properly disciplining a child), then I believe it's valid.

 

Usually an illegal option also becomes more or less invalid. To me it's not an option so it's not a valid technique either. I view spanking as unnecessary at best and harmful at worst, so really it's not an option, which is further reaffirmed by the Finnish law.

 

I don't agree.

You want someone dead? You shoot them in the head!

It may be *very* illegal, but it is a valid technique to acheive your goal.

 

My parents yelled at me and hit me, and its made me become the total opposite when dealing with children (and pets). I know how to excert my dominance onto others without raising my voice or resorting to violence, and I do it often. I dont need to resort to being mr pleistocene to get children to behave. This doesnt always work though with the intellectually disable kids I work with, they are more cunning than 'normals' are. If I had kids I would never hit them, nor yell at them. I wouldnt even do this with a pet animal.

Oh and its illegal here in NZ, dunno if anyone here knew that. Its an offense to use anything other than light force (whatever that is) to discipline your child. There was a recent referendum about it asking whether people wanted it to stay like this or not, and I forget the outcome, I dont really care. Despite being against physical violence of any sort as a form of discipline I voted that it shouldnt be considered a crime to hit your kids, as I dont believe its the governments right to tell you how to govern your personal life, and instead I believe that the government should educate the population on better ways of disciplining your kids (negative reinforcement anyone?).

 

I think it really depends on what you call "light force". For me, what I'd call spanking is "light force". For others, "light force" may mean nothing more sever than picking up your child, and if pain is caused in any way it's an offense.