EU Nations

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I was just reading an article on fivethiryeight, and while the article was not about the EU itself, it offhandedly mentioned that neither Switzerland nor Norway were in the EU. While I do not ever remember seeing an official list of EU nations, I assumed that both these nations were included. Is there a specific reason for their electing against it? It seems like the benefits would outweigh the negatives, so I'm assuming there's something I'm not aware of going on. As an acillary point, are there other major European nations not in the EU? What about the other Scandanavian nations (not that Switzerland is Scandanavian) like Finalnd and Sweeden?

 

Joining the EU means, in addition to the benefits, certain obligations in terms of what kind of laws are passed (France was told off not too long ago concerning some of its internet laws IIRC). I think Norway didn't join because it would mean changing something in their system that they didn't want to change. I don't remember why Switzerland refused, it may be either for the same reason or simply to maintain their neutrality. Maybe they see joining any kind of geopolitical or economical organisation to be against total neutrality. They have however implemented several measures that benefit EU residents directly (such as any non-EU citizen with a residency permit in any EU country being able to visit Switzerland without a visa - something even the UK doesn't allow)

Aside from these two all the other "major" European nations are part of the EU (several eastern european countries have either joined recently, are in the process of joining, or have applied to join). However not all countries have signed on all the EU agreements - the UK for example is part of the Union but is not part of either the Euro Zone or the Schegen Agreement, so they still use the British Pound as a currency and anyone entering the UK still needs a passport to do so (whereas you can go between the Schengen countries without one).

 

As far as I know, Norway is not a member, because the membership would cause many troubles to their fishing industry and since they have their own oil and a strong economy they don't see a reason to become members. As for Switzerland, I assume that the main reason is their famous neutral status, as well as, that their banking system would have to follow EU regualations and guide lines.

EU members

 

It has been pretty much covered. Norway hasn't joined as they do not see any benefit for them to join and Switserland not due to their vaunted neutrality policy. Wasn't it only a few years ago they joined the UN?

 

the EU isnt such a good thing, eventhough I know they will never win an election I always vote UKIP because Britain needs to withdraw from the EU

 

Yeah, you guys should totally make your status as the 51st state official already. Most of Europe would be quite happy to get rid of the obstructive Brits.

 

The british taxpayer would be landed to see the total net loss of £4.1 billion come back to the UK every year.

 

I went to the UK without a passport, I only carried an ID.

 

I remember all the arguments that people were constantly throwing around against the UK joining the Euro Zone and the Schengen Agreement. Half of them were hilarious ("if we open up to Schengen then any terrorist will be able to enter the UK through some other country and we will have no control!!!") and the other predictions have failed rather spectacularly ("the pound is stronger than the Euro and if we don't join then we'll do much better if/when a recession happens!"). Never mind that Britain constantly complains whenever it is asked to comply with EU standards (which it then happily ignores more often than not) but never misses a chance to influence the EU in a direction it finds more favourable to its or its allies' interests (I want to have my cake and eat it too!).

Frankly I have the same attitude towards those in the UK constantly calling for withdrawal from the EU that I do towards those in Scotland calling for withdrawal from the UK: Please do. The aftermath will be rather entertaining.

Correction: I meant to say "anyone not an EU citizen".

 

I knew that the British still used the pound. I take Euros don't do you any good in Switzerland and Norway? The Swiss presumably still use the Frac. Norway uses what?

EDIT: Apropos of pretty much nothing - eveidently Norway sent the US a bunch of Christmas trees for display in Union Station in DC. I've never heard of gifting a Christmas tree around Christmas time. Practical gift I suppose.

 

They use the Swiss Franc but there are many places where you can pay with Euros and they'll give you your change in Francs (at least in Geneva).

There is almost no control anymore on the border with Switzerland, as a EU resident, when I go to Geneva I never take a passport.

 

Norway (along with Iceland and Liechtenstein but not Switzerland) is part of the European Economic Area. This is sort of a half EU member. They get access to the single market and so gain what's the most important benefit of the EU. They pay some money in but not as much as they would as a full member. The big drawback is that they've to follow EU rules and laws in some areas (not all areas) but they don't get any say whatsoever in the decision making process. Not that any of them are big enough to have a huge say but it's still a drawback.

I can't help noticing that of the four countries above three have major banking systems and the other has oil. Two of them also have a large fishing industry.

 

Neither is Finland by the way. Not to nitpick but it's a fairly common mistake made by foreigners and I always feel the urge to correct them. Nordic countries are made up by Finland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden and Denmark while Scandinavia consists of Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Iceland. This is mostly because Finns are Ugric and not Scandinavian in their ancestry so calling us a Scandinavian country would not make much sense.

I'd say only two qualify for major banking systems since the Icelandic banking system went more or less bust during their financial crisis.

The Norwegian Crown just like Sweden uses the Swedish Crown and Denmark the Danish Crown.

Fishing is probably the biggest step hindering the membership of Iceland and Norway. The overall stability of the Norwegian economy (a lot of it due to oil and natural gas) has also contributed to the thinking that they don't really need EU. Switzerland has a very stubborn policy of neutrality as I'm sure you are aware and probably won't be joining EU anytime soon. Iceland has started negotiations on membership since their economy collapsed a year ago or so, I expected them to be members within a few years. The microstates like Liechtenstein have really little to gain from membership, they are tax havens and their ability to function as such would probably suffer quite a lot as full members.

A lot of that would remain to be paid unless you are suggesting that the UK withdraws from the European Economic Area, which could be quite disastrous for the UK.

 

It seems a lot of Finns don't mind being associated with Scandinavia rather than anything to the East or South us, though. It's a misconception few people rush in to correct.

As for the original post, Finland is a member of the EU and uses the Euro.

 

It is of course true that Finland likes to associate itself more with the Scandinavian countries and it was not like I took offence or anything. I've heard plenty of Finns call Finland Scandinavian but that only goes to show their ignorance of Finnish history.

 

Well, yeah. It is a historical reason though. And as you said, now that it's gone they're on the fast track for EU membership. Fishing was probably more important than banking though. It's not just sharing the fish that's the problem. The Common Fisheries Policy is a complete disaster and nowhere near as good as Iceland's own system, particularly when it comes to overfishing.

 

Yeah but that's a problem Iceland will probably just have to deal with. The European Council of Ministers has (or at least had, I haven't got a clue how it's now with Lisbon agreement) the right to decide national Fishing quotas. I strongly doubt they will be given any exceptions, they are in the weaker position in the negotiations anyhow. They need EU much more than EU needs them.

 

That's the first time I've heard that. In fact, I've heard the terms Nordic and Scandanavian used pretty much interchangably. Than again, it's not like I know a lot of people from Finland. Outside of SP, I know... well... none.

Would not this European Council of Ministers set higher quotas for nations whose economy depends on the finshing industry? That would only seem fair. Setting up rules that provide a disincentive to European nations whose economy depends on a couple of specific industries (be it fishing, banking, oil, whatever) seems rather arbitrary. It seems obvious that an island nation like Iceland is going to have a much greater need to fish than say, the Czech Republic. (Not to pick on the Czechs - it's just the first nation that popped into my head.)

 

the UK imports alot more then it exports, the net loss is after the benefits to the UK have been applied.

 

No, I doubt it. The net losses of Britain of EU membership which includes only payments to EU lies somewhere close to six billion, I don't think your figure includes the costs and gains of being within EEA, since it's different from EU anyhow. EU is by far the biggest trading partner of Britain and being forced to trade through the trade bloc might prove quite difficult.

@Aldeth

The council of ministers consists of the heads of state or government of all member nations and is the top decision maker in Europe, and yes they obviously take into account the needs of individual countries, however, the fishing quota of Iceland is likely to be reduced from its current quotas. EU will also expect Iceland to stop whaling.