EU Nations

Remove all ads!

Furthermore, the EU's record of enforcing the quotas is appaling. The area reserved for a country's own vessels is just that which hugs the coast and you have to let other EU ships in to the rest of your fishing areas. Unless you catch them red handed in the middle of the ocean (it's a big place) there isn't a lot you can do. And the penalties if you do catch them aren't too severe. The Spaniards are notorious in this regard.

 

I don't mind the EU. Europeans are mostly sound... Except the French, not that fussed about them.

 

A little known fact, while Denmark is a member of the EU and Greenland is a part of Denmark, Greenland is not part of the EU.

 

Jim Allister:

Civitas:

The reason for the rebate:

Civitas again:

I disagree, I studied economics for A level and one of the major tools that the UK lost to protect its markets when joining the EU was its ability to place tariffs and quotas on harmful goods imported from the EU, it would be ludicrus to believe that foreign traders would turn away from rich UK markets if forced to trade in accordance with British trading law, but atleast we could protect our markets from the EU's over supply.

 

EU is both the biggest provider of exports and imports to Britain, in case of rising tariffs Britain can expect countermeasures from the continent. If you look at the relative trade dependency between EU and Britain you'll notice that Britain is a whole lot more dependent on Europe than vice versa. Engaging in a trade war with someone you are more dependent of than they are dependent of you is a really stupid idea and only serves damage the British economy. Withdrawing from the EEA would have negative impacts for Britain and efficently eject them from the European markets, but then I doubt most serious politician even consider such and option knowing fully well the consequences.

A theoretical argument could be made that the loss of European trade could be compensated by closer ties to the US and a mutual free trade agreement between the countries, but that is assuming quite a lot and how it would work out in reality is difficult to measure. I doubt the US would be very eager to sign any free trade agreements anyhow at the moment.

Not that I'm an expert on British economy. The arguments though sound very similar to what the extreme right represents around here which makes me somewhat skeptical towards them. In the current financial crisis its easy to make EU the easy target and not concentrate on the real issues that caused it, but for all I know the arguments around there might have a ring of truth to them, still I find the odds very low for a British pullout off the EU.

 

I didnt say that Britain would enter a trade war, I said that I dont think withdrawl would have much if any effect on the UK's trade with the continent, there is too much inward interest within the UK.

I dont know about EU withdrawl though, the winds are changing, many of the older voters who vote labour and conservative just because are dieing and the younger generation are voting with more thought, the BNP for example are growing steadily.

 

Voting with more thought is voting for BNP?

 

I like you Shoshino, but you do realise you've made yourself look a complete idiot with that paragraph... it's a slippery road you've decided to steer down there.

 

Exactly what do you think the consequences of lopping 10% off your economy would be? To put in perspective, the current economic crisis represents a fall in GDP of about half that.

I'm not sure how well a lot of the figures represent what would be the effect of leaving the EU. EU regulations cost a fortune but if ye were independent most of them would still be there, they'd just have to be imposed by the UK government instead.

As Morgoroth said if you did this you'd find every EU country deciding to protect their markets from the UK's over supply, severely cutting your exports. Countries do better with free trade generally, law of comparative advantage and all that. Protectionism was one of the main causes of the crash of 1929 turning into the Great Depression that lasted for all the 30's.

 

It was an example that the British public are sick of the current situation. and the only people who look like idiots lately are the anti facists who oppose them.

never forget that hitler was voted into power.

when I say voting with more thought, I mean, voting with what they agree with rather then simply voting for labour because they worked in a mine.

against the £12 billion that the UK pays for the EU every year, not much.

what do you think the UK exports? the UK exports inward investment, no company in the world would be suicidal enough to withdraw from the UK, think of how many hundreds of companies within the UK are owned by foreign companies and export their net profit to a foreign company, corus exports billions every year to the US in its investment, Jaguar range rover exports hundreds of millions (and has just been bailed out by the british tax payer for £1billion) to India, Franco Carnau Metal Box exports millions to france.
If you dont understand what Im saying is that foreign companies make a massive fortune from exporting from the UK and then importing their net profit into their own country.

no company will withdraw from the UK, EU or no EU, it would cost too much money.

 

When exports and imports are measured they are done without taking into account investments which are in fact capital transactions and not import/export of goods and services. Therefore while capital transactions are a significant part of UK economy, they are not a part of the balance of trade and are not to be included in exports/imports.

 

Im not looking at the basic exports vs imports to which you will find that the UK imports more then it exports, trade isnt simply measured by the direct result of imports and exports of goods and services but a larger picture of foreign interaction covered by the inward and outward investment, because money is still a commodity which is bought and sold.

no company would withdraw from the lucrative UK markets.

 

Well no, trade is not defined in the way you describe. The balance of trade (exports-imports) as I said consists of import/export of goods and services, what you are talking about is the current account which is a different matter all together. It's true that an imbalance in trade can be compensated with net inflow of capital, but you will find that the British current account is heavily on deficit never the less, Britain in fact has the worst deficit in Europe second only to Spain.

I also don't recall mentioning that companies would withdraw from British markets, simply that tariffs makes those markets less lucrative and companies less eager to export when their profits suffer, the same will obviously be true with British exports to Europe. Tariffs by rule decrease trade and will affect the size of the European trade. Any protectionist measures by Britain directed against EU or EAA will be met with similar or possibly more severe countermeasures. Britain withdrawing from EAA will end hurting them more than it hurts Europe, no matter how you measure it. As for withdrawing from EU, that's another matter and I can't really comment on its economic impact. Even if we take the twelve billion at face value it's still only a tiny fraction of British GDP.

 

But would the UK still be as attractive a base? Ireland gets far more FDI (foreign direct investment) than the UK does relative to size. There's not that much difference between us, similar location, similar culture, speak English. A foreign company would have the choice of choosing Ireland as its base and taking the hit on the goods sold in Britian or choosing Britain and taking the hit on the goods sold in the entire of the EU. It depends to what extent they need to be located in their market. It wouldn't affect McDonalds an awful lot. It'd have a major hit on a pharmaceutical company selling worldwide. The other factor would be that the UK does have specialist expertise in some areas. Ireland isn't going to attract car making or aerospace companies. France or Germany could though.

 

Seriously Barmy, what do you hold against the French apart from some deep rooted prejudice?

Talking about prejudices reminded me of an old joke about the EU:

What would be the best for Europe? The French do the cooking, the English are in charge of the police, the Italians make love and the Germans organize everything. Now, what would be the worst for Europe? The English do the cooking, the French are in charge of the police, the Germans make love and the Italians organize everything.

 

What do I hold against the French? Preferably something wit ha sharp pointy end!

No, seriously, it was a joke..

 

I'm a paranoid frog so the lack of smiley made me take your comment at face value. Sorry about that.

 

Don't worry, I know it can be a bit hard to see if I'm joking or serious sometimes on the internet!

 

I'm glad to hear that Shoshino, like my own father, puts some genuine thought into his vote. He's gotten some responsible representation in the government now!

When my mom last visited him in Scotland, he was ranting about those awful filipina women who go to Scotland to find a husband... as if they were criminals, and should be stopped somehow! I don't think I'll introduce my girlfriend to him, heheh.
He then proceeded to criticize single mothers, who raise children to become criminals at the expense of decent people. All my mom could say (after pushing her jaw back): "I think I did a pretty decent job actually." His response: "Huh, what??... This is getting too deep for me!" Stoopid eejit!!!
The BNP is for people who hate first, and think later.

 

I used to get hassle because I was raised by a single mother.

People seem to forget that they are the parent that stayed