A couple of multiclassing questions

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Paladins get their charisma modifier as bonus to all saving throws, as bonus to hit when using smite evil, they cure paladin level * charisma modifier hitpoints with lay hands.
Turn undead will be useless with your character, paladins do it worse than clerics and for multiclassing with fighter you loose 4 additional levels.

Your cleric doesn't need high charisma, the highest level of turnable undead isn't affected by it, you only get 1 extra HD for 2 cha and additional turning attempts per day. There aren't very many undead in the game and they aren't difficult to defeat.

You can use the sorcerer as diplomat, 18 cha means 4 in all dialogue skills without even a single skill point spent and by raising cha at level up and using the eagle's splendor spell you should have about 24 cha at level 8 (7 in all talking skills) without ever spending skillpoints.

For the paladin I'd dump int in favor of strength and take power attack instead of expertise. Summons are better meatshields and you need someone who is able to hurt enemies with up to 15 damage reduction seriously.

 

If willing, one can simulate it with a monk3/fter4/painbearerX, using spells as "zen skills", for example:
1: Bless
2: DUHM
3: Prayer
4: Holy Power
5: Iron skins
6: Divine shell
7: Impervious Sanctity of Mind
8: Holy Aura
9: Summon Monster IX

or something similar. In IWD2 the amount of spells makes it quite easy to simulate special kits with some imagination.

 

I understand that. Let me explain what I've meant before in a different manner. Let's assume characters that are level 16 (reasonable for the end of normal mode).

Here is the basic number of spellslots that you get (not the number of spells known) without considering CHA.

Level 16 Sorcerer (pure)
spells level 1 to 6: 6 slots - level 7: 5 slots - level 8: 3 slots.

Level 14 Sorcerer (Monk 1 Ranger 1)
spells level 1 to 5: 6 slots - level 6: 5 slots - level 7: 3 slots.

Level 9 Sorcerer (Rogue 3 Fighter 4)
spells level 1 to 3: 6 slots - level 4: 4 slots.

The main difference between a level 14 Sorcerer and a level 16 Sorcerer is (apart from the number of spells) access to level 8 spells. That's the (high) cost for taking a few levels from other classes.

Now, consider the level 14 Sorcerer and the level 9 Sorcerer. I'll concede that the level 9 Sorcerer will have bow specialization but he will also have less spells which will make him less effective as a spellcaster. The other Sorcerer will have access to spell levels 5, 6 and 7 furthermore he will be able to cast more spells every day (at the very least 16 spells).

What about BAB and bow proficiency? Compared to the level 14 the level 9 Sorcerer will have +2 to hit from the BAB (if I got the numbers right) and +1 from weapon focus (which any character can take) and +2 damage thanks to weapon specialization (limited to Fighters with 4 or more levels).

So that would be +2 to hit and +2 to damage compared to at least 16 spells (without taking into account CHA) and access to spells above level 4. Not to mention that the difference will apply to spellcasting level, the higher the spellcaster's level the more effective most spells are.

I'm not a powergamer so I get that you may want to play a more ranged oriented character rather than a pure spellcaster I don't mean to bother you with my post that is getting way too long but I just want to point out that the difference with the bow is not going to be spectacular: taking specialization won't happen early because of the necessity to avoid XP penalties and thus spreading levels between Rogue levels and Fighter levels. In other words it means that Specialization will be available at level 7 (Fighter 4 + Rogue 3) whereas the other character build will have access to Fireballs at level 8 at the latest (Monk 1 + Ranger 1 + Sorcerer 6) at which point the bow specialist will start to cast level 1 spells. I've totally discarded the BAB difference because the Fighter 4 / Rogue 3 / will have to reach Sorcerer 4 before being able to cast Cat's Grace whereas the other build will already be casting it 5 levels before (making it last much longer).

IMO a good build if you're looking for a spellcaster with Evasion who can use a bow is probably the wild elf Sorcerer X / Monk 1. If you're not that keen on Evasion having a Ranger level instead is not a bad way to make such a character more versatile than your average Sorcerer. It's not a powergamer's choice but unconventional builds can make the game more interesting.

@Thurisaz: interesting perspective. Perhaps I should elaborate, Zen Archery is included in NWN it allows to use the WIS bonus instead of DEX with ranged attacks (a bit like Weapon Finesse with melee). I'm not sure that could be modded or that it would be that useful anyway since it would be of use to Clerics and not Monks who usually go for high DEX anyway.

 

There are also a decent # of "disrupting" weapons floating around the game that make defeating the undead quite easy.

With the above listed pally build that has 13 INT and 13 DEX, I'd suggest simply dumping INT to 8 and DEX to 10 to free up 8 stat points that I'd then suggest putting into STR up to the max, then the remainder into CON. As you say, every party really needs a kick-butt tank... and a pally with on a STR of 12 and CON of 12 is only going to kick the butts of goblins and an occasional orc...

Expertise really isn't a tanking feat. It's more of a defensive feat for wizards and other naturally high INT characters.

Also, as nice as the Dodge feat can seem, having to expend 3 stat points to get a 13 DEX really eats into the stat points you need for the more important tank stats ... STR and CON.

 

Not only Dodge, but Deflect Arrows and Dirty fighting

 

Oh... ok.



Dirty fighting from a ... a ... PALADIN!!! Oh, the horror! Throw him out of the Order!


Seriously though, those feats aren't worth the hit you'll take to STR and CON by pumping up DEX and INT. STR and CON are for more important stats for a pally than INT and DEX.

 

It's one of those less known paladin feats. Smite evil is everyone's cake, but bumping uglies... now that's what makes a true hero.

 

I wouldn't go out of my way to get them (Dodge is the best, the others are not that good). Your character will probably wear some heavy armour so DEX won't help with AC.

You'd be better off pumping points in STR and using a two hander if you go all the way (two handed weapons work best with high STR).

That being said I wouldn't dump INT to 8, I'd limit myself to 10 especially if I intended to have that character act as the leader. It won't make much of a difference in game but I just hate min maxing (especially INT). 8 points in INT is almost retarded. Some players don't mind characters with 3 points or even 1 point in INT but I just find that questionable.

If you have to powergame do yourself a favour and just add points with Dale Keeper it's always better than min maxing.

 

A DEX of 13 is really going for the worst of both worlds. Not enough DEX to usefully use the heaviest chain mail and its max DEX bonus of +2, since DEX 13 only has a DEX bonus of +1. It is possible to play a paladin even with a DEX of 14 wearing chain mail... I've done it myself... but you would have to do so with a somewhat lower STR and/or CON, and possibly CHA (and definitely INT). Frankly, paladins are so stat intensive that it's much easier to just go with a DEX of 10 and wear heavy Plate armor, and save the stat points for STR and CON.

I'm not 100% convinced that going with 2H-ers all the time is such a great idea. Oh, I don't doubt the value of 2H weapons and the 150% of STR bonus against certain enemies, but my experience is that using a 1H'er and a good shield may be more useful against cannon fodder enemies to minimize the number of hits you take and save your HP's. Still, I'd want to be skilled in both 1H and 2H, if I was going to flip back and forth between the two.

Regardless, I don't doubt that one can make a go of it using only 2H'ers. I just feel more comfortable much of the time with better AC.

(FYI, in my last party, my dwarven fighter had this very same dilemma ... to use 2H axes or 1H axes with a shield. I ended up using the 1H axes and a shield much more often because it felt like whatever extra damage the 2H axe caused ended up costing me at least as much in extra damage to my dwarf from the lower AC, particularly against cannon fodder enemies.)

I have no problem with going down to an INT of 8, but I won't go below that. Frankly, I believe the problem is that IWD2 doesn't give you quite enough stat points to play with. Far too many characters in stat intensive classes just don't seem particularly "heroic" with only 76 stat points to work with. 80 stat points seems like a better number to me, though to be fair, there are some less stat intensive classes where 80 stat points would be almost overkill.

I do agree that an option here could be to simply use Dalekeeper2 to add a few more (4?) stat points, though I worry that the IE won't recalculate the saves properly. It would be nice if Mindchild's Custom DLL had the option to start with 4 additional stat points. Oh, I suppose that one could wish for more, but 4 seems like a fair enough number to produce "heroic" characters for the more stat-intensive classes.

 

13+ dex also allows taking the most powerful feat, rapid shot, which grants an extra attack per round.

The paladin of Helm has to obey the watcher of Helm, so he doesn't have to be very smart or wise. I'd start with 12 wis, it won't make a difference for most of the game and when you level up to fighter4/paladin12 you can still raise it to 13 for the level 3 spells.
Maximizing strength will be good for the party balance, else your paladin might not feel more useful than a summon.
But don't overemphasize the stats, +1 to hit or AC or saves for one character isn't much in a d20 world.

 

Kmonster, I agree that Rapid Shot is a great feat. However, I'm not sure that it's worth spending 3 stat points to get, when those 3 stat points are better spent on STR for what is essentially a melee character. Rapid Shot is a great feat to take if you're going to have a sufficiently high DEX the character, like for a rogue or a ranger. And I can even see doing it for a Fighter, cuz Fighters aren't particularly stat intensive, so freeing up 3 points for a 13 DEX is rather easy to do. Heck, that's doubly true for Barbarians, since any pure barbarian is going to want a 14 DEX or so to sync up with medium armor, to preverse their barbarian speed. However, paladins are soooo stat intensive that 3 stat points spent on DEX really does seem to nerf the overall character. And if you're going to go for 13 DEX, you might as well go for 14 DEX and be a chain mail wearing pally, plus get an added +1 AB to your ranged combat, which will matter if you intend to take the Rapid Shot feat in the first place. Mind you, I don't think that a 14 DEX, chain-wearing pally is an optimal build, though it is do-able.

 

Every character needs to be good with a ranged weapon, having to run across the map first before doing damage is a serious tactical disadvantage. With throwing axes and rapid shot you can do even more damage than in melee.
A paladin can be quite effective with stats like 18-13-14-8-12-15.
In full plate you benefit from 12 dex and even for 18 dex characters it's not forbidden to wear plate.

 

I'm sorry, kmonster, but I don't think that the Rapid Shot is a make or break feat, and I don't really think that it's necessarily worth the cost of 3 DEX stat points.

 

Below the party that started the journey. Obviously not the optimum stats, but better than the original I posted, thanks to your advices. I won't bother too much with the precise numbers and thresholds, as long as the characters are useful and not downright botched. It would be a boring world in Icewind Dale if all adventurers would have the same best stats

The paladin will have the strength leveled up and added fighter levels for Long sword weapon specialization, while the rogue will have 2 levels for skills and evasion, then wizard all the way. The remaining two characters will keep the original class.

Since in the last period I only play iron man style, I wonder how long will they last
(my last IWD2 party made it up to the black raven monastery, where I've lost interest by losing party members to the stupid trials)

 

Good luck for your Ironman game, since 4 characters are a lot weaker than 6 on the long run you must be very skilled a in order to succeed.

If you take a wizard level (or even 3 or 5) before the second rogue level you'll have to spend less skillpoints cross-class and have higher skill at the end.

The best way to handle the monastery trials is killing the monks when the chambers get too tough and getting a reward from the duergar.

Be warned that all feats which require at least 13 dex will stop working if you drop dex to 12 permanently by drinking the potion you can win at battlesquares rank 2.

 

In Targos store you can buy the shield Flank of the Virgin (+2 AC, +1 DEX), and Chainmail +1 (+6 AC), thus my 13 DEX paladin got 21 AC (10 base + 2 DEX bonus + 2 Flank of the Virgin + 6 chainmail + 1 dodge feat). I think this is about the best AC you can have at the start of the game, which comes really handy since the first chapter is usually very difficult for a low level party.

 

Pfft, 21 is for beginners. Try 29 that lasts for hours at a time.