Shapechange AC & spell buffs

Remove all ads!

I was wondering if spell AC buffs work normally for wild shapes?

In case they do, a druid with a monk mix-in level would reach AC 70+ rather easily with the air elemental wild shape, spell buffing and some stat bonus equipment.

It would be fun having a nigh-invincible elemental leading the party in HOF as opposed to a grey trickster ninja midget.

 

Spell AC buffs, yes. Wisdom, yes. Everything else, no.

You'd need at least two druids to be able to Barkskin the shapechanged tank wannabe, and even then, you'll fall short of the 72 AC mark.

IIRC, you start with 29 AC with the Air Elemental form (including DEX). +3 for a lucky Cat's Grace or slippers (DEX), +15 max from WIS, +6 from Spirit Armor, +5 from Ghost Armor and finally +9 from Haste & Barkskin for 67 total AC. Close, but no cigar.

 

Add another +2 for War Song of the Sith, and then cast both Prayer and Recitation for another effective +3.

My experience is that 72 is more of a guideline than a rule, since there plenty of monsters that go above BAB +52 anyway (I noticed a guard in the Severed Hand with +57, and Saablic Tan's lover IIRC is at least in the mid-50s) while there are other tough monsters like Gelugons and Glabrezu which have only +39 or so. Not to mention those crazy Olive Slimes in Dragon's Eye. Besides, with Haste on you can ensure that small numbers of enemies rarely get the chance to attack you (run around them and stay out of range) while large numbers of enemies are perfect targets for your Symbol of Hope/Wail of the Banshee/etc. Bearing all that in mind, I think it is *possible* that an Air Elemental might work okay as a tank, but it certainly isn't more effective than other options like a Drow Dreadmaster1/MonkX. However if you think it's cooler, go for it.

-Max

P.S. Coineineagh just posted this link in the other thread: http://www.gamebanshee.com/icewinddaleii/shapechange.php. Base AC for an Air Elemental is 31 (Dex 29 = +9, generic +12 bonus).

 

I already mentioned this list, but I think it can help you with these questions too; there are some facts written below the list, such as:
"All armor class modifiers are negated, including armor, shield, racial (such as Deep Gnome Generic AC bonus +4), and Dodge feat (Generic +1). "

Although it fails to mention the wonderful monk WIS bonus to AC... since Wis is unaffected by shapechange, and the bonus applies unlike most other effects. Shapesgifted monk1/druidX is a cheesy powergaming build, but it still has its weaknesses. Inability to cast spells remains a significant disadvantage; you miss out on Heal, and other stuff that may be useful during combat.

I have a human monk1/ranger1/druidX that dual-wields some powerful (modded) weapons, making its damage on par with the regular shapeshifts. But the Alternative Druid Shapeshifts from Ease-of-use mod changes things; especially the Elemental Half-Dragon at level 21.

 

*lights cigar*

I got AC 73, though used some rather special arrangements.
Elemental form 31
WIS bonus +15
Spirit armor +6
Ghost armor +5
Barkskin +5
Slippers (+5 dex to base dex 29) +3
Helm's Watch +2
War Chant of the Sith +2
Haste +4

Rather extreme, but then, most AC 70+ builds are.

BTW, air elemental attack is a large sword and specialization in it gives damage bonus. Dwarven ogre is a nice item for this guy too, hits for 18-39 points per hit (constant blur helps too).

 

For how many rounds can your druid maintain this AC73??
Try the elemental half-dragon, you won't need to worry about AC anymore...
40(dragon) + 8(Champion's) STR:
2d6+4 slashing 2-handed sword (+29 dmg from STR bonus x1.5)
+2d6 elemental damage in all 4 elements
Results in a total non-critical damage calculation of 43-93 dmg per strike before resistances. 4 attacks/round as soon as you get the dragon form... Gamebreaking cheese, only to be utilized on special occasions (or tedious battles)

 

...which is why I don't use it.

The not so easily hittable elemental is good enough, especially when loaded up with call lightnings and static charges. The AC73 lasts probably for about one battle (max 30 rounds / day), since it is dependent on Helm's Watch, but the elemental is rather good at running away (and dealing lightning while at it) if need be.

---------- Added 3 hours, 22 minutes and 53 seconds later... ----------

By the way, what's the use of Improved invisibility? It doesn't seem to affect AC at all.

 

50 percent of enemy attacks outright miss due to concealment.

 

Oh yeah, thanks. So II + blur + blink equals 80% enemy melee attacks miss outright (at least if they don't blind fight). Add in Mirror Image and you're set.

The question I'm wondering right now is whether extreme AC is worth the extreme effort it requires when it can be replicated (or complimented) with such little hassle (say, 10-12 levels of sorcerer, bard or mage)?

 

I think the problem is the DPS and the spellcasting loss. Blink should also cause you to miss as much as your target. If this setup can be attained without sacrificing druidic spellcasting then it should still be useful though, for major battles. Cleric spells can help with that, unless for some weird reason you don't use clerics in your party. The bard is almost a given if a druid is around, they complement each other well.

 

In practice, Blink and Improved Invisiblity are a little bit of a hassle--Blink has the spell failure/melee failure problem, and Improved Invisibility can interfere with a monster's aggro, which is the opposite of what you want for your main decoy. Improved Invisiblity is great as a supplemental defense for someone you DON'T want the monsters targeting, but you also want someone for the monsters to beat up on, and it's easiest to make that be a decoy instead of a summons because in some battles you don't have a chance to summon anything first and because summons don't remove fog-of-war like PCs do, and because summons can't be moved around within the party formation like PCs can either.

For tough battles, yes, you could compliment your AC with Improved Invisiblity, and add Blink/Blur if your decoy happens to be an Illusionist. Or you could just throw down a Symbol of Hopelessness/Greater Command, which reduces hits by between 50% and 95% depending upon enemy saving throws. For me the most important function of a decoy is easily surviving small fights, since for large fights I'm likely to use spells to disable everybody or Mass Dominate them, and to have plenty of summons as targets (even a lowly Monster Summoning I survives for quite a long time since monsters don't get the x3 HoF damage bonus against summons but the summons do get the x3 HoF HP bonus).

-Max

 

I disagree. There are ways of summoning monsters without having to bother with the spellcasting time (e.g. using the Viol of Hollow Men, a bard-only item). Selective invisibility allows a party member to get rid of aggro, so monsters attack the summons instead. It's irrelevant that summons aren't included in a party formation, since they can't transfer areas (which is their one actual downside) and you get to decide where to summon them anyway. That summons don't remove fog-of-war is both a curse and a blessing - you wouldn't want every monster in the area going after your party either.

The decoy has more serious downsides. A natural roll of 20 will not miss, so there's always a 5% chance that he'll get hit - and this % rises considerably the more monsters are hitting him. He can also fail his save on a natural 1, and depending on the spell the results can be lethal. Finally decoys are almost always a complicated multiclass and deep gnome, which affects their usefulness in battle besides "tanking" stuff.

Anyway just because you use summons doesn't mean you don't have someone with extreme AC. I wouldn't want mine (the party cleric) to end up becoming the decoy though.

 

NO. And there are many more cases to be made for why most 72+ AC characters aren't worth the elaborate and complex leveling sacrifices required. Off the top of my head: Weak offense of the decoy, short spell durations for required spells, summons as alternatives, and just plain old defensive spells + fast-paced combat = very little damage taken
I think these old posts of mine on another thread addressed the question nicely:

Someone mentioned that the chance of getting hit is less than 5%, since the attacker must reroll for a critical.

 

IMO rolls to confirm criticals were not implemented in IWD2. I could be wrong though.

Heh, quote. Reminds me of the time I used Wish on my Wild Mage and got the "area effect" mod and asked all but one of the genies "for a horde to overrun my enemies"... good times. Ah well. At least I'll concede that Dragon Age has been a step in the right direction.

 

I don't disagree with you. Summons are quite useful and I use them frequently, especially in large/risky battles. I especially like the Wand of the Dead and the HoF Book of Leaves, which summons shamblers. However, I don't think trying to make a perma-decoy character using Blink/Improved Invis/Blur instead of high-AC is likely to pan out, which was the point I was trying to address.

-Max

---------- Added 0 hours, 3 minutes and 36 seconds later... ----------

According to the combat window they are implemented, in the sense that there is a re-roll before you get double/triple damage. However, a natural 20 will always do at least normal damage even if the critical fails so a decoy always gets hit at least 5% of the time without Blink/Invis/Blur/Mirror Image/etc.

-Max

 

I see. Seems I misinterpreted your post, I apologize for bringing it up and running in circles around the topic.

 

The reference is indeed to the BG2 lvl9 Wish spell. It's supposed to be "I wish to summon a horde...", but i only got 45 characters. Anyway, the relevance for me, is to the 20 rabbits which the genie summons. My online name is the (misspelled) celtic word for rabbit.

 

Yep. Now imagine 20 rabbits x (#of party members + #of enemy monsters present at the time). That's what happened when I got the AoE effect on that Wish. I suppose there's an exploit in there somewhere.

Heh, fitting I guess.