Haiti Earthquake.

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I'll send you a postcard!

This is a perfect example of tolerance, IMHO. NOG and I obviously think quite differently, but I don't let his beliefs bend me out of shape, and he doesn't shun me despite his beliefs.

 

Not in the least. In fact, I still hold out hope of converting LKD one of these days!

 

Your repeated jabs at Catholicism made a strong case that there may be more to this than a simple joke.

Now I realize you didn't say that Catholics were idolaters, but that bit about "having the appearance of idolatry" is still another instance of Catholic bashing. The fact that pplr's post did address that question didn't prevent you from bringing it up again:

Reasserting this one more time wasn't necessary as it's almost cut and paste:

The "godless" bit may have been a joke but the hints at idolatry and this entire thing about Judgement Day is in rather poor taste given that we are discussing the Haiti earthquake. If you don't see why I'm saying that then let me remind you that MANY people DIED because of that earthquake.

That part of your post really pissed me off (hence the bs smiley I've used before).

You may think that it is alright for you to say that Haitian Catholics are heathens (i.e. not Christians) the point is that saying such a thing in relation to what has happened in Haiti is just wrong.

Many people have died or are going to die in Haiti and whether or not they're Catholics or Christians is not for you to say.

To post such a thing in this context is disrespectful to say the least. It also shows a severe lack of compassion and a blatant disregard for the grief of Christians in Haiti.

You may not share their beliefs and you may believe that they are all going to Hell but that's not a reason not to show them some consideration and respect especially at times such as these.

 

Catholicism is just the most extreme one I know much about. I don't know many details about LDS. In general, though, the Charismatics are a dangerously wild bunch, because they generally have little to no grounding in actual scripture. They feel great, but they're very susceptible to very bad teaching. The Baptists (my group) are much the opposite. We have great grounding in the scripture, but all too often our churches are spiritual wastelands.

You were criticizing me for making a judgement. That's typically a sign that you think I was making a judgement without any grounds for criteria. I decided you may need to know the criteria I was using and that they were scripturally based. If what you really think is that no one should ever judge anyone or anything in any way, well, we'll just have to disagree with that. As for pplr's post, I responded to it, and it hardly settled the issue.

This is a good point, and I apologize. We got off-topic and I forgot the context. My fears are real and honest, but this wasn't the place to voice them.

 

We are the product of our environments. It's only natural that you should pass judgements based on your upbringing and the values that have been passed on to you. Everybody does.

Naturally I assume that you have your own criteria for making a judgement. The problem is that your set of criteria is only going to be relevant to people who share your values.

Hence, you'll never be able to convince me that Catholicism in itself is a dangerous doctrine or that people who call themselves Christians are not Christians.

In the end I'm not criticizing you for making a judgement, I'm criticizing you for voicing your judgement in a way that can be offensive to persons who do not share your values or will never share your values. It's especially true on the internet since you can't possibly know if someone who is or feels directly concerned by what you're posting is going to read your posts... I'm not even a Catholic and I was offended by your attacks on Catholicism.

Then I'm glad that you understand why I was so mad at you.

We may disagree on many points (probably on most points) but it's important not to forget that people are living a real nightmare in Haiti.

I've read that they've managed to rescue 132 persons but that they are now giving up so we can only expect the death toll to increase...

 

I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to tell you why a Protestant minister may preach to a bunch of Catholics. Given that that is entirely based on his judgment and understanding of Catholics, I hope you understand it now.

I've been reading (and hearing) that they've been giving up for several days now. I get the impression it's a long process in these cases. Specifically, they've said they're moving from a 'rescue' footing to a 'recovery' footing, meaning they expect to be rescuing fewer people and instead recovering more bodies, but if they find people to rescue, they still will.

 

I am very, very sorry for bringing up religion.

In rather awesome news that you might be interested in: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=78023&SRC=haiti
Basically, for a $20 donation to Haiti you get about 1500 PnP RPG book PDFs. There's some very well thought of games in there, such as Beast Hunters and Full Light, Full Steam (and I hear rumour that 3:16 Carnage Among the Stars is in it, but not sure).

 

Yeah, but who get's the $20, and how much actually goes to Haiti?

 

http://doctorswithoutborders.org/index.cfm

 

Doctors without Borders: 87.3% Pretty good.

 

What are those percentages, their rating?

I've heard of them, mostly under their French name Médecins Sans Frontières. As far as I know they are pretty legit.

 

The percentage is how much of the money they take in goes to charitable actions. The rest goes to administration, advertisement, etc.

Yes, Doctors Without Borders is very well known in the US, and probably abroad as well, given the name. They have an excellent reputation of sticking to their principles (such as providing medical aid to both sides of a conflict).

 

strange that we give so much money to a country like Haiti when we have such serious problems with poverty and homelessness at home

 

I don't know about you, but I give a lot at home, too. Well, being unemployed, not so much these days, but I did. There are plenty of local-based charities that are worth contributing to, like the Red Cross, any kind of food bank, Habitat for Humanity, etc. Or, if you really don't have any money, you can just watch Extreme Makeover Home Edition. I don't know what their 'charity rating' would be, but they get their budget off of ratings, and it's definitely great charity work.

 

I was watching television last night and they spent a lot of time on Haiti. I make no claim to really understanding the sitution over there, but I came away with a shocking revelation. Are we (and the rest of the world) wasting our time and money there? It looks like Haiti's entire infrastructure has been destroyed. I'm not sure if they have the ability to provide food, shelter, and a means of survival (a job) for the people. My impression is they could barely do this before the earthquake, and now the situation is considerably worse. It looks to me like all our aid is doing is providing day to day assistance. When that ends, what will happen, or does this mean it can never end and the world is now responsible for Haiti forever?

Now, I'm not a big fan of immigration, but I have to wonder if it makes more sense to seriously de-populate Haiti and resettle them elsewhere.

 

TGS, I think that made sense decades ago when people realized the Haiti soil had been completely stripped by overly aggressive farming/deforestation from commercial interests. The people didn't want to leave then, and I doubt they do now. The funny thing is, the other side of the Island, the Dominican Republic, is doing much better. They still have problems, but their government works to manage them.

I do react similarly to you, however, and wonder how long we'll be helping these people, and what will happen to them when we stop.

 

Well, it looks like they've found at least a few of those children that had disappeared.

I don't know if their intentions were honest or not, but if they were, they weren't thinking.

 

Well, however bad (relatively) things are at home (the UK for you, right?), I'd wager Haiti is much, much worse. Plus, things are cheaper there, so you get more for your money .

Anyway, apparently the parents of the kids found with the US missionaries testified that they gave their children willingly, so the missionaries should be acquitted pretty soon. Good for them, and I hope they don't lose their enthusiasm to help opther - but I hope they make sure to do the paperwork next time they are taking kids from one country to another .

 

IMO, regardless of how well-intentioned those missionaries may have been, it is the height of stupidity to think you can fly off to Haiti and come back with a few dozen kids (30-something I think) without a lot of paperwork. I'm sure they meant no harm, but they are guilty of extreme stupidity.

 

I've just watched a program about Haiti on TV. There was an interview of a Haitian Voodoo high priest who had quite a few interesting things to say about missionaries. Obviously he was biased towards them but he was very articulate and said something that was really interesting i.e. that he was irked by foreigners who would come and fast a few days, dancing and singing in praise of the Lord, because he couldn't help thinking that it was a lot like carnival to them and thus that it belittled the suffering of the Haitian people. He was speaking in French so I try to report what he said as faithfully as possible. The program also showed how Haitians were trying to find solace in religion after the earthquake and there were interviews of Haitians and foreigners alike who were preaching and praying with much fervour in the streets. I couldn't help thinking about what the Voodoo priest had said.