A War Going On

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American, British and soldiers of other nations are engaged in a very tough battle with the tyrannical Taliban in Afghanistan. I just wanted to comment that they are doing a great job, and performing the mission that they have been given by their commanders. And also, that our thoughts are with them in this engagment:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35369975/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35412073#35412073

Here's a good debate on the issue (Dylan asks all the right questions here, IMO):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35412073#35410943

It seems odd that an intense battle is going on at this moment, because Americans and British citizens are fortunate enough to not have this on our own soil, and life goes on for us as normal. In my own opinion, the Taliban are enemies in every sense that the word denotes, not only to us but to the liberty of the Afghan citizens as well. And whether or not you are for or against the War in Afghanistan, which Obama declared a "war of necessity," nevertheless, we should not forget that they are there fighting the good fight.

 

Hear, hear! My hats off to the troops. I wish them the best, though I fear for how little those wishes may bring.

I was having an interesting discussion about this topic with my father the last time I visited him. I agree that the Taliban are enemies and should be fought and defeated, as does he. His view, and I don't really have enough specific knowledge to say for sure if he is right, is that nation building in Afghanistan is an impossible task. In his words, it is a collection of tribal valleys and has been from recorded history. The same reasons that caused the British and the Russians to fail in controlling the country will be the same ones we face. Difficulty in winning hearts and minds, influence of the opium trade, tribalism, and radical Islam to mention a few.

Like I said, I'm not totally informed about all the facts, but talking with him lead me to have serious doubts about our being able to accomplish our goals in that country in any given time frame.

 

The troops are always in our prayers. It's easier to remember them, being in a military town, though. I'm afraid a lot of people actually forget we're involved in a war if they aren't reminded.

As for what 'success' will mean, though, I don't know. The Afghan people certainly don't have much history of unity or stability, and their historic reaction to foreign influence on their politics has been... less than pleasant. Still, if we actually manage to root out the Taliban and then do nothing more than guide the Afghans in the process of forming their own government, there may be hope. Maybe.

 

I have Taliban fatigue. We kicked their arses a few years back, we stopped fighting them, and they came back. I see no reason why we won't kick their arses again, and once we leave, they'll come back. I don't have any magical solution to this problem, of course, other than a permanent presence in Afghanistan.

 

Aldeth: It's been done. I really wouldn't want to follow down that path.

 

I agree T2, that's why I said I don't see any good solutions. (I guess I technically said magical, but I'd settle for good.)

 

FYI there are soldiers of other nationalities stationed in Afghanistan. Not just British and American soldiers.

The Russians did not succeed in the 80s. Afghanistan is a nightmare. I don't see any solution either.

 

US officials are reporting that they captured the 2nd in command of the Taliban in Afghanistan. I don't have the offical count, but I think this is about the 85th time this has happened in the last nine years. (And yes, I understand that when you capture or kill a high ranking official, someone else takes his place, but it still seems a bit silly to repeatedly say you got the "2nd in command").

 

Sorry, for the oversight, Cara. I'm glad you pointed that out.

 

I have great respect for the soldiers risking their lives in Afghanistan. We are constantly reminded by the troops in body bags coming home to the base just outside Edmonton.

I also have great respect for the leaders who are trying to take a stand against evil -- because make no mistake, the Taliban is freaking evil, and no amount of moral gymnastics can make them anything but evil.

The sad fact is, though, that realistically, success in that are requires the full buy-in of all the people there. So far, we have yet to achieve that buy in. In addition, the government being propped us does not have a lot of legitimacy -- I realize that you cannot expect perfection and sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils, but there's a limit, and IMHO the average Afghani doesn't really see Kharzai and his crew as being significantly different from the Taliban in terms of trustworthiness.

There is not simple solution here. I am not a fan of the permanent presence solution, especially if it means more Canadian* soldiers dying on foreign soil.

*Or any other, for that matter

 

Does it matter? Even if we catch #1, will they stop? Nope. Thus forcing our hands into a permanent occupation. We've been there long enough, let the Ruskies back in for a while. I say, "Hey Moscow, tag, your it!".

 

I think this is the critical thing. We should be reminded of such great sayings of old as 'All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing' and 'The cost of liberty is eternal vigilance.' They're more than platatudes, they're truths.

But how do you inspire a nation that has rarely been united under anything other than the sword to unite? I'm not giving up yet, but I don't have an answer.

 

Unfortunately this is a Holy War for them. The only thing that stops a holy war is genocide (which is not a good option for us -- on either end).

 

But it's not a holy war for the common person in Afghanistan. It's a holy war for a few extremists. The question is how to cut off the supply of new recruits to those extremists and, asside from removing the fear-hold they have over the populace, it's primarily about turning the populace against them.

 

It's not about religion as much as controlling poppy fields and the money that opium production represents.

Ahmad Shah Massoud could have made a difference with some international support but he is dead and we're left with the likes of Hamid Karzai.

I don't see how getting twenty-year-olds in uniforms killed over there is going to solve the problem.

 

Maybe fire-bombing the poppy fields?

 

That would cause ALL the locals to turn against us.

 

Giving the locals a valid economic alternative may be a start. Seeing as the economy is in shambles it is not going to happen anytime soon and in the meantime some young men are losing their lives along with some stray civilians and misguided people who've been enlisted by warlords who use religious fanaticism to cover their greed.

 

Right, I'm not taking sides here at all. I believe everyone should be free to follow their own path, make their own laws and live their own lives as long as they cause no harm to others. I agree that the Taliban are the bad guys here and trying to remove them as a force is a good thing.

I also understand that a lot of British and American civilians and soldiers have died because of terrorist actions relating to actions made by the Taliban.

However, a lot of people seem to think that the losses our nations have had are more important than the civilian losses in Afghanistan. Wikipedia shows total estimated loss of civilian life since the action began over there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

It's got me thinking about the old tribal blood feuds that used to (and still do) occur. When/if we succeed in removing the Taliban, what about the families over there who have lost innocent people? Will they forgive us? Should they?

I'm not trying to start off any political debate, don't PM me hate mail, and I'm certainly not trying to belittle anyone on 'our' side...I just wonder if this thing can ever really be over when we've left such a big trail of innocent bodies behind us

 

ISAF has been trying to move the Afghanistan farmers from opium to saffron, which is legal and, I've heard, just as valuable.