When you see a white cross on the road side...

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Apparently a Texas-based atheist group has taken offense to white crosses on the side of the road in Utah. A federal appeals court in Utah has declared the 14 white crosses placed along the roadside to commemorate the deaths of Highway Patrol officers to be violations of the Separation of Church and State. Apparently, the cross isn't a sufficiently accepted symbol of death by the secular community. Unlike Christmas, which is completely accepted as a secular celebration.

So, I ask you all, when you see a white cross on the side of the road, what do you think of? Additionally, for those not in the US, do you have such symbols in your countries? Do you have something else?

 

Yes we have such symbols, we call them iconostasis, they are like mini christian temples and they are build by the families of car accident victims.





I'm an atheist but I don't have a problem with them, church bells and the live broadcasting of rituals via speakers placed outside of the churches are far more annoying.

 

I may be in need of a refresher on the whole "seperation of church and state rule". I always thought that what it meant was that the "state" was not supposed to support or promote a "state approved religion". That doesn't seem to be what the ACLU and the courts have decided. It seems to me that what it means now is that the very existance of religion is to be scrubbed from anything that involves the "state".

This is truly a sad waste of money and the court's time.

 

Absolutely. They should be focusing on more "practical" things like removing "In God we Trust" as the 'official motto' and it's engraving on all coins and all those million and one other places where there clearly isn't a separation.

 

I can see however how the government putting crosses on the roadside could be seen as promoting a religion, especially if their purpose was not clear for someone driving past one of them. Still seems like a waste of money, but then many court cases are.

I don't know if we have anything like this in Finland and if we did I would not mind much, but then we don't have a separation of church and state either.

I live right next to Turku Cathedral and don't really have a problem with the bells but if they actually started with some live broadcasting via speakers I'd get seriously annoyed.

 

I just noticed I forgot to include the link to the article.

Morgy, the government didn't actually put them up. This is one thing that really confuses me. They were payed for privately, not by the State. They do, however, include the Highway Patrol's logo on them, so I guess someone may have thought they were put up by the State. Still, I'd think the solution would be to remove the logo, not the whole cross.

EDIT:
Upon further reading, many of the crosses are on public land, which may have been what was objected to. I'm still not sure the reasoning sticks, though.

 

We have little white crosses and flowers by the road in New Zealand where there have been fatal road crashes. Nobody thinks it means that a practicing Christian died there.

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But Christmas IS a secular celebration so not sure what your confusion is there.

 

When I went to Florida the first time with my cousin we saw a lot of these, and joked about them, counted them, etc. We had no idea what they were.

Was kinda sobering to realise each one was a death in a traffic accident.

 

If it wasn't the state that put them up, than I really don't understand why it's such a big effing deal. If the state were to do such a thing, I would hope that they would tether their symbolism to the faith of the departed. If the state put up a cross to commemorate the passing of a Jewish officer, his family would likely find it a bit offensive, no?

 

I don't pay enough attention to grave sites on the side of the road. I'm too interested in DRIVING!

 

I would think that the KKK is recruiting nearby...

Seriously though: the majority of Poles are Roman Catholics (as some of you may have seen on the news, there is this massive hysteria involving a cross going on curently). I am of an entirely, entirely different faith, and yet experience no emotional, moral or existential distress upon seeing religious symbols in public places.

If the crosses had been paid for privately, what is the harm? Majorities have the same rights as minorities, free worship being one of them. As long as I can hang a Mjollner or put a runestone wherever I see fit, why should not Christians be allowed to do the same with their sigils?

I agree with the previous posters: the grievance is unnecessary, and a poor way to start separating the state from religion.

! Passengers will be more interested in the public debate, it seems. Hehe!

 

personally they arent white cr5osses they have wreaths around here with a name or a pic in it. but i get what people are saying about the white crosses being a symbol of christianity. and i think thats why they arent used around here often if at all.

 

If I saw a white cross at the side of the road I would simply think it an attempt to keep religion in the eyes of everyone who can see it, like when people put that stupid fish on the back of their cars

 

I've seen a lot a roadside memorials -- you can tell the religion from the memorial. The cross is entirely a christian thing.

 

I find the grievance against crosses by the road strange, and afaik it's paid with private money. It IS on public property, but I don't see that as much of an endorsement. How big are those crosses, anyway? Unless they are some 30-feet affairs, I find it all quite absurd.

TGS, why did you drag the ACLU in this, anyway?

 

Imagine that you return home at 5 a.m. half-drunk after a wedding party, fall to sleep and then at 7.30 a.m. DANG-DANG-DANG. Trust me you 'll have a serious problem with the bells after an experience like this.

 

I'm going to bring the other extreme to this thread (then again, that's what I'm known for, hmm, offensing and *ESPECIALLY* scaring people?) but I think waste of time and space. Live, die, and be forgotten. End of story.

 

Yeah, I saw that on the local news. I was surprised at the verdict considering that 90% of Utah's legislature is Mormon...

Welcome to Utah!!!

The thing about those crosses is, a vast majority of them in Utah stand to honor fallen cops who were Mormon....but the LDS church does not identify itself with a cross. You will never see a cross on top of an LDS church or temple. You'll only see a spire or a statue of a fictional character blowing a trumpet.

 

Being considered a Christian nation, the meaning of the cross (among other Christian related stuff) is somewhat dilluted in certain application. Like in the case of deaths. Crosses are used irregardless if the person is Christian or not. But if it's by the road, it's usually in memory of someone who died there. It's just like the cemetery for the soldiers here and in the US. You see all those white crosses neatly arranged but we all know not all of them are Christians.

 

Also, i've only just realised, road is spelt wrong in the title.