Ponder this for a moment, if you will

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If you live in the United States, you are more likely to be a prisoner than if you lived in China, North Korea, Iran, or Saudi Arabia.

 

Is that a literal prisoner or some sort of devious word-play for Americans being like sheep on a metaphorical factory farm of illusory democracy?

 

A literal prisoner. According to wikipedia, roughly 2.4 million US citizens are currently in jail. Which is about 0.78% of the total population.

I'm not sure whether North Korea has a higher rate since their data isn't public. NK is quite known for locking up entire families when one of the family members did something nasty. According to our Great Leader; World-Leader of the 21st century; Sun of Socialism; Dear Leader, who is a perfect incarnation of the appearance that a leader should have; He who never had to brush his teeth; Glorious person with everlasting light shining out of his buttocks; He who has defeated Chuck Norris when he was a stand-in for Bruce Lee; etc, etc one fights evil by extermination its root.

mordea, why are you getting so fussed up about the U.S. when there are far worse evils in this world?

 

And yet, some have alot of luck avoiding it:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100925/ten-lindsay-lohan-freed-after-15-hours-i-ea4616c.html

 

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/wppl-8th_41.pdf

As someone mentioned earlier, North Korea's prison population is undocumented. However, of every country whose prison population is documented, the U.S has the most people in jail. Its prison population exceeds that of China, Mexico, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. Can people please think about that for a moment. More people are incarcerated in the United States, than in *Mexico*.

'Free country' my ass. I wonder if it's a crime to insult a police officer in Mexico, like in the U.S?

What the hell? The United States has the *highest prison population* in the world. The United States *is* the worst in this arena. It's kind of funny that people criticise the freedom of places like China and Mexico, when it is the United States who has the greatest proportion of people rotting in a jail. If you live in the U.S, you are more likely to be sent to prison than had you lived in China and Mexico.

How f'ed up is that?

 

It's the War on Drugs, Mordea! If they legalized at least a few drugs they would have to close half the prisons, layoff thousands of cops and clear thousands of court cases. Plus many of the secondary crimes, such as people stealing and killing each other to buy drugs, would vanish. No such luck though.

 

The UK prison system is full to bursting, there is no more money for new prisons or staff, the budget has infact been cut substantially, so the answer: let off criminals with non custodial sentences... you may have heared of the imfamous ASBO, suspended sentences, community orders, fixed penalties and roadside cautions ... you can now get one of these for serious violent crimes, drugs posession and even sexual offences.

 

Aren't drugs illegal in a number of other countries, including Mexico and Saudi Arabia? Don't get me wrong, I think the 'War on Drugs' is absurdity, but it's not like the United States position towards illicit drugs is unique.

 

I'd say it's not effed up at all. I doubt I'm any more likely to be thrown in jail in the U.S. than I am in China. I doubt any (or most) of us here are significantly more likely to be thrown into jail whether or not we live in the U.S.


Freedom is not about being able to do whatever you want and not be punished for it. In most cases, violent criminals being put into jail is why we have freedom...

 

Rahkir has a point, the prison system in the US is probably no more severe then it is in China, maybe its the attitude of its population which get themselves thrown in jail.

USA:

(crime rate per 100.000 population (2008))

Violent crime rate : 454.5

Homicide rate : 5.4

Property Crime rate : 3,213

While I cant find specific rates for China, I have found some passages which may apply:

On the flip side, executions are more common in China:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

thats a good way of keeping the prison population down, 68 crimes punishable by death?

Is it also possible that the crime - arrest ratio is higher in the US? resulting in more prison sentences?

 

More likely in what way? If we're talking probabilities P(Jailtime|Crime,US) > P(Jailtime|Crime,China) then it is a positive thing for the US because that would mean that there either are more criminals running loose in China, or that the Chinese have certain ways to depose themselves of their criminals.

It is quite well known that most of the prisoners are there due to a drug-related offense. In most of the countries that you mentioned (China, Iran and Saudia Arabia, and some you didn't: Vietnam and Indonesia) drug crimes are punishable by death. Which is something that BTA and Shoshino have already mentioned and should be the answer that you are looking for, but which is something that seem to ignore.

Wrong for the reasons mentioned above.

That is because the Mexican government is almost ineffective when it comes to their war on drugs.

 

Are you implying that Americans are more criminally inclined? Especially minorities, who disproportionately represent the inmates?

I find it hard to believe that Americans are more likely to commit crimes than all of those other documented nations.

The imprisonment rate in America far outstrips that of China. That demonstrates that one is more likely to be imprisoned in America than in China.

False dilemma logic fallacy.

By ineffective, you mean that they don't employ SWAT teams to smash through the window of a middle-aged housewife who bought endone from a narc? *chortle*

Thank god all those horrible Americans who insult police officers who shot their defenseless dog in the head are thrown in jail.

 

Just to lift the level of discourse, up and away from the premise this thread was started on. The lecture is followed by a Q&A. It is helpful to also read this article.

That said, mordea, you have a point. You also do a piss poor job of articulating it.

 

I'm too lazy to spend the time to write an essay and answer every poster. I'd rather just make an observation and let people come to their own conclusions.

 

No, you put off people. Lazy is no excuse for bad, and whatever your point actually is, you tend to make it poorly.

From a purely practical point of view, one does not not start a presentation to you with 'people, you suck ...'. That doesn't work. That way, one does indeed let people come to their own conclusion - which will probably be that the writer is annoying and obnoxious and not worth reading. That's in your hands and it is an open question whether you are interested in that - but by all means - suit yourself.

 

I honestly don't care. I come to the forums to vent or express an opinion. I don't want to win people around to my way of view.

 

this is a debate forum, not a place for you to vent.

then you explain the crime rate

 

If you don't want to win people over to share your view, what is the point of you posting? But whatever. IMO lamentably you're ruining the debate about an interesting topic and a serious issue for Americans. This could be interesting and worthwhile. You make sure it won't be.

Chandos offered a glimpse here and here: War on Drugs and it's consequences - especially insanely long prison times (like 128 years), idiotic rules like 'three strikes' and mandatory sentencing and last but not least allowing a perversion like a prison industry which has a profit interest in having jails occupied, and which is thus exceedingly supportive towards 'tough on crime' laws.

People go to jail in the US for minor stuff like marijuana (or other drug) possession easily (think of these silly celebrity scandals) even when the stuff is intended for own consumption, and since that are then drug charges, the sentencing, as a result of war on drug legislation, is usually harsh. In my country, as long as you are under dealer threshold, they will confiscate your weed (or other drugs) and you'll likely face no charges because it is not considered a severe crime to use drugs (i.e. where's the victim?). The American approach criminalisation and hefty penalisation of everything drugs stands in sharp contrast to that approach; I don't think it works very well.