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I think I do. As I said before: I'm sorry for being rude. I would be the last who would start seeing people as "sub-human".

Mental disorders and illnesses are a medical thing, but obesity is much more a cultural thing. Sure there are people who gain weight because of medicine use or their genes, but the majority is getting too big because they are eating too much and exercising too little. There are so many people who can do so much more against their weight gain, but don't and yet complain because they are obese. I don't get that.

There are about a billion (!) people with overweight on this planet and a third of them is (clinically) obese. I know that some of them have good reason and I feel kinda bad for them. But there are also lots of people who know they tend to get bigger fast and just use that as an excuse, like my huge colleague. "I can't help it! I just gain weight real quick." Meanwhile, she stuffs herself with fries, chocolate, candied dates and brie. When someone takes a refreshing dive while he can't swim, I think he's stupid. If someone gains weight far too easily and stuffs himself, I think the same.
Unfortunately, (and I think that's the real problem why overweight people are still being mocked) I met an awful lot of people who used their genes or medication as an excuse. I fear that I am about to lump the overweight people with good reasons together with those with a sorry excuse... And usually, I give them all the benefit of the doubt and act nicely.

 

I think Master of Nuhn is getting at something important in the civilized world.

Yes, a lot of people don't want to admit it, but being overweight results from a choice. Medical reasons can make this much harder, but it still has to be dealt with like any medical ailment that doesn't go away on it's own.

Being 'big' is not inherently a bad thing. I have no problem with large people, some of my best friends are large. I'd say up to about 300lbs [maybe a bit below, I'm not an expert on judging the weight of a person] without a lot of muscle mass is fine with me, after that a health issue is just bound to happen. That leads me to worrying too much about my friend not to care.

I don't think Nuhn is trying to say that being chubby or big is wrong, but that being obese to the point of severe health problems should be treated as an ailment. And regardless of that, we should still treat all people with respect. [Feel free to tell me I'm interpreting you entirely wrong, but I recall you saying you had a hard time debating in another thread. ]

Being obese 'does' cause loads of health problems and no one can deny that. It is important to note that I do not use obese to describe anyone who is mildly overweight, so hopefully no one who is 'big' will take any offense. I have no problem with you if you're healthy and big; more power to you! As long as you aren't suffering because of it. (Some could argue that it's their choice to suffer, and it very well may be, but I don't sit idly by as my friends suffer. Again, I don't use suffering and big interchangeably; I only use suffering to indicate severe health problems, the same way I would worry about an anorexic friend.)

 

Oh whatever, not like people haven't told me I've got bad knees because of a choice. A choice to be born with bad knees. Shame I took so many flaws to pimp out the other stats.

I can't really describe how this makes you look without violating pretty much all of the forum rules.

 

Taza, I tried to make it clear that I wasn't talking about anyone in specific.

If you were born with bad knees, you were born with bad knees. That's that; no more to say.

If a medical professional shows clear signs that you have bad knees because you weigh 500lbs, then yes, it stemmed from a choice.

However, as I stated before, I'm not talking about you. I have no problem with you. Nor do I have a problem if you've got bad knees. Taza, your bad knees may or may not have stemmed from a choice. As I said, I don't have a problem with your knees, but if you can't breath properly, have a severe risk of heart attack or other ailment then I'm going to worry about you. You may dislike me for that, but that's your choice too. Thank you for not insulting me and violating the forum rules. I genuinely appreciate it. If we were to meet on the street I would treat you the same as I treat everyone else Taza.

Apologies if I hurt any other feelings. I'm not trying to attack anyone who is big, nor do I think you're a bad person/deserving of any less respect than a skinny person. (I'm also very aware that a big person can be healthier than a skinny person.)

 

No, you see - my bad knees don't stem from my weight, nor does my weight stem from a choice.

I literally can't balance my diet in a way that would cause me to lose weight at the moment. Not without placing myself in danger. A person's weight is nowhere close to being a choice a lot of times - a lot of people just don't have the money to lose weight, for example. Or there could be medical conditions that take things quite a fair bit away from "JUST DON'T EAT".

 

I understand that there are circumstances that make being 'skinny' impossible or very hard to achieve (i.e. lack of resources as you said).

I'm not an expert on every kind of disease in the world, so perhaps there are diseases in which it is literally impossible to lose weight. I think these cases of obesity are in the small percentile, however, I wouldn't even call those people obese in the way we use it today. (I touch again on this later)

However, I do have experience with some diseases which affect weight; such as type 2 diabetes. My younger sister has diabetes (she's a teenager, but she is skinny/exercises every week/eats healthy/refuses to eat fast food). I also know two other people who have type 2 diabetes, one is an older lady who is a bit big, about 250 lbs, relatively short. But not what I would call obese. I also have a good friend, she's younger, has a great diet, exercises a lot and is in great shape.

Just to reiterate, I have no problem with people who are big. I don't have a problem with people who are obese either. I don't go around the street trying to purify every obese person, but I also don't see what is wrong with stating that being obese causes health issues. Regardless of whether it is a choice or not, obesity 'is' a health issue, and I would like to see non-medically caused obesity treated the same way anorexia is. If there is a disease which causes people to vomit when they eat (which there probably is) then I wouldn't call them anorexic, and medical professionals probably don't call it anorexia; I think obesity should be the same way (there should be another name for medically caused obesity).



I'm speaking of the relative population, Taza. I apologize if you have a health issue which makes losing weight impossible for you. [edit- I apologize if I offended you; there is no need for me to apologize for your weight -- and I mean that in the kindest way possible!] However, the majority of people who have weight issues don't have those underlying medical causes. (At least where I'm from; the U.S.)

Taza, the main thing here is to realize I'm not talking about you. Are you a person who eats and eats and eats, has no medical reason for gaining weight, and then says it wasn't a choice? You know the answer to that, not me. If you have a good medical reason, if you try to manage your diet and exercise, if you try to live a healthy lifestyle, then I'm not talking about you.


P.S. I'm not a total health nut, I love my double bacon cheeseburgers, but I believe striving toward physical and mental health is a virtue. I run a mile every morning and do strength exercises every other day; that's a choice I make. Again, I have nothing wrong with people who don't make that choice, but I'm going to worry about my friends if they live a very unhealthy lifestyle. I want them to live for a long time so I can continue to annoy them with my dialectic obsession. [In the case of a disease: I'm not going to blame a friend for having cancer; I'm going to support them and help them in any way I can. I'm not going to blame a friend for having diabetes; I'm going to support them and help them in any way I can. I'm not going to blame a friend for having a disease which causes weight gain; I'm going to support them and help them in any way I can.]

 

And so what if it would be a choice? Why would the size of someone be of anyone elses concern? Are people who can't be arsed to spend the time and effort to be slim and beautiful less valuable? This condenscending attitude is really really annoying.

People who play football are vastly overrepresentated when it comes to knee injuries, we must stop the poor people from playing football so they do not hurt themselves. They are too stupid or weakwilled to stop themselves but maybe we can mock and condenscend them into stopping? That is how you sound MoN, Rahkir and loads of other people. Oh you have good intentions, oh you are worried about health problems for society. Baloney, you get personally offended by fat people and you would prefer if all of them would sit inside and hide, well, very very many do. They do not dare take place in society due to their wicked "choice" of being fat instead they sit at home getting fatter cause they don't want to meet your judgemental eyes.

But don't worry, I know the disgust you feel when you see a fat person, I feel the same if I see someone fatter than me. But at least I do not channel it into a holier than thou attitude that oh we need to help these poor people because they are too stupid to help themselves. Not to mention the constant judging, who the hell are you Rahkir to list when it is ok to be fat and when it isn't? How can it be your place to judge people? You know why a lot of fat people complain about being fat? It is a misguided attempt to deflect your judgement and disgust Rahkir. They think that maybe if I complain before he does he will not judge me so harshly for being fat but you still do, you still do.

 

Noones judging you. It's just funny to take the piss out of stuff. It's not serious, or meant in a personal way. Don't worry, I take the piss out of everything I see that I might be able to make a joke out of, and I get the same in return about me! Life is one big joke, we all need to realise it .

 

Joacqin; I clearly stated that I couldn't care less if people I don't care about deeply are obese to the point of health issues, but I have no problem stating that it is a health issue.

I'm not sure where you read condescending tones or disgust in my posts. Joacqin, if you're big, I don't care. I'm not disgusted, nor am I going to tell you how to live. If you're skinny, I don't care. I'm not disgusted, nor am I going to tell you how to live.

Many people have mentioned being big here; I'm not lecturing them or preaching to them. I will continue to converse with them as I always have: as people. I don't know how much LKD weighs, I could care less, he's intriguing to debate with regardless of his weight.

I'm not sure why it is perceived as cruel to say being obese causes health issues. Are you saying that it doesn't? Or are you simply saying I'm not allowed to say it does because that somehow makes me condescending?

If someone I love or care about is bordering on having health issues because of their weight, I'm going to say something. I'm not talking about being "fat" or "overweight." I'm talking about being obese to the point of severe health issues.

I also worry about people whom I care about that are at high risk for heart attacks for any reason. Does that make me condescending to them? I'm truly asking, as I am not trying to be condescending or to act holier than thou.

 

It is condenscending, you do not think they aware that it is less than good for their health?

I don't mind jokes, jokes are funny but it is "concerned" attitude that bugs the hell out of me. Your posts scream "I am better than you" Rahkir, "I run an hour every morning, I enjoy my baconburgers but I dont let them make me fat cause I am not a weakwilled fool". Also, where is the limit when it becomes a "health issue" do you know? So if a friend of you gains 10 pounds you will say, watch it friend, dont want you to get a heart attack? Any extra weight is a health problem, but so is smoking, drinking, not eating enough vitamins, being born with the wrong genes and a thousand other things. Are you going to police it all?

 

I did not intend to scream I am better than you by stating what I do... I was trying to state that it doesn't matter to me whether people exercise if they don't want to; it's their choice not to.

Yes, smoking and drinking are health problems too. Being born with the wrong genes isn't a choice. Of course I won't hope someone will change their genes. However, I will hope that people stop drinking and smoking. Obviously, I'm not going to get on someone's ass for smoking once a week or drinking champagne on new years. Nor am I going to get on someone's ass for gaining a few pounds. But, yes, if I care about someone I 'will' try to help them. I don't care how many people think that makes me haughty or inconsiderate; if I can help the people I care about become healthier, then I'll do it.

I helped my uncle quit smoking. I talked to him flat out about it. I was there for him when he felt like he needed a cig, and he's happier and healthier because of it. I helped a good friend of mine start working out; talked to him flat out about it as well. Offered to go to the gym with him, etc. He accepted and we've been working out together since. He hasn't lost a lot of weight (he has lost some), but he's in much better shape and much happier because of it.

So yes, I do get concerned about the people I care about. I don't deeply care about or love you joacqin, so why do you care whether or not I try to help the people I do deeply care about?

On the same note, I asked my father to quit drinking once. He said flat out nope. He continued his unhealthy habit and I let him be. I tried, he didn't accept, I moved on. There is nothing wrong in my eyes with trying to help anyone. The worst that can happen is that they refuse and you both move on. You don't have to agree with me, but I think I've made my point pretty clear.

 

Oh my God, give Rahkir a break! He's already said that he's not trying to offend anyone, you guys are just looking for something to be offended by!
I'm a fatty and I think he's made some very good points, just not too clearly put. Will you just chill out and back off?!?! It's like talking to my mother about age!!!

 

Thank you, Silvery. I am too long-winded at times and my meaning becomes obfuscated.

Since this isn't the alleys, I say group hug to lighten the mood!

 

Hey, you leave me be Silvery I am trying to focus a lifetimes worth of frustration and annoyance at one person here!

 

Quiet or I'll eat you
Seriously though, Rahkir was on your your side so don't be a div

 

I beg to differ.

 

Well you would. The poor guy has said repeatedly that he wasn't having a go at anyone and he's also said that he had worded his comment poorly. Now behave and stop being a plonker

 

I guess you do not think people who say; "I am not a racist BUT" are no racists?

 

I've used that phrase myself on occasion but ask my Chinese, Nigerian, French, Iranian, Indian and Pakistani friends if they think I'm a racist.
It was a poorly worded post that expressed an understanding of the various situations: those who are fat because they over-eat and don't excersise (Choosing to be obese) and those that have a medical condition/medication that causes them to be obese (an unavoidable side-effect).
He's quite right too. I'm overweight because I eat junk and don't excersise too much. It's my choice to be this way. I understand the health implaications and I don't blame society or think that I should have special treatment. On the other hand, a friend of mine is massively obese because the medication he takes causes him to be. It's not his fault and he shouldn't be given greif for it.

 

And you should be given grief because it is your choice?