Various questions on a F/T Multi-class

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OK, I finished off my R/C and started an elven F/T. I swear I once knew about all of these things, but it's been years since I've played, and I really don't remember the answers to these things.

First of all, I am not opposed to giving my character a kit using Shadow Keeper. I didn't with my R/C simply because there was no apparent benefit in any of the ranger kits, and I never thought "Boon of Lothander" was all that. It would seem that while a Swashbuckler wouldn't do me any good, as I will have all the fighter aspects covered, either a Bounty Hunter or an Assassin could be quite useful, especially since by the time you hit level 12 or so, you have more thief skill points than you know what to do with. On the fighter side, the only one I can see any sense in is possibly a berserker, although frankly I have done enough of them in the past with other characters that it's not that appealing. Neither the kensai nor the wizard slayer is going to work for what I want to do with this character. I'm actually leaning towards Bounty Hunter, simply because I've never played one beyond Yoshimo. But I'm taking suggestions.

Here's the real question. As a F/T that's going to be using two-handed weapons, I'll use a staff as my primary back-stabbing weapon. However, it might be nice to have a different two-hander in one of my quick slots. If I throw something like a two handed sword, or a spear, or whatever in a quick slot, will I still be able to use thieving skills provided I don't have it actively in my hand when doing it? I guess the same would go for something like a long bow. Can you still do things like pick locks, move silently, etc., if you have a non-thief weapon in your quick slot, but not as your active weapon?

 

I think armor is the only restriction- so with F/T you'd might want a two sets of armor- combat and thieving armor

 

As Voy suggests, only armor influences whether or not your can use thief skills. You can use all weapons, but can only backstab with weapons that a single class thief would be able to use (pre-UAI, of course).

F/T multi-class is nice. I did a Half-Orc F/T and F/Bounty hunter. While the bounty hunter traps are nice early game, it doesn't really offer much beyond that. A multi-class F/Assassin will be lacking in skill points until quite late in the game (assuming you'll want at least Find Trap, Open Lock, Hide in Shadows and Move Silently - Set Trap too, but only once you get the spike traps). I've got plans for a solo Half-orc F/Ass and a human F/Ass dual class, just to see the difference.

I've got a F/Swashbuckler already created that I intend to run through the whole of BG at some point, but it will be a while. And I suspect (s)he'll be rather unbalanced.

 

You shouldn't have an issue with weapons and thieving skills as henkie said (even with the active weapon). I've had fighter/thieves and used fighter only weapons with no issues in lock pick or other such skills.

Go for the Half-Orc fighter/assassin -- they were allowed in first edition so it's not really cheating ... much. It fits into the whole child of bhaal thing too.

Fighter/swashbuckler would basically be a kensai without armor restriction. Easily much better than a kensai/thief with very similar progression to hit and damage, bonuses to AC and ability to wear armor. The only down side is no backstab, but that's not much of a drawback when you can choose WW at most thief HLA's (after UAI of course).

As far as armor (to add to Voy's comment - I know you didn't ask), Night's Gift is pretty much all you need and you can get it very early. Once you've built up stealth skills shift to Shadow Dragon Armor (and later Grandmaster's Armor) -- I never saw the need to carry around multiple armors.

 

Wait a minute - does that mean once you get UAI you can backstab with weapons that a thief normally wouldn't be able to use? If I take two-handed swords, I can hand out butt-kickings for goodness with Carsomyr?

With the item upgrade mod, I can significantly boost my points. I can combine the Gloves of Pickpocketing, Ring of Lockpicks, and Ring of Danger Sense into "Bracers of the Master Thief" and add 20% to all three of those skills. Throw on a Mercykiller Ring, Boots of Stealth, and either Mae'Var's Shadow Armor, or the Night's Gift (from Umar Hills Quest), and that's a ton of points to everything.

This confuses me a bit - what benefits does a Swashbuckler offer that isn't already covered by the fighter class? (I'll be the first to admit that the Swashbuckler is my favorite kit to add to all other multi-dual classed variants, I'm just not getting why it would help to combine it with the fighter.)

EDIT: I mean, wouldn't the to hit bonuses already be covered by your fighter's THAC0, and the additional AC would seem minor compared with the loss of the ability to backstab.

 

No, as dmc surmises, I meant that it only goes for weapons that single class thieves without the UAI HLA can use. That means that backstabbing with the Staff of Magi isn't allowed either (because thieves wouldn't normally be able to use them).

Swashbucklers get bonuses to THACO and AC every 5 levels. It's like a Kensai (though Kensais don't get AC bonuses) but for thieves. Basically, it makes your fighter an even better fighter.

 

Hmmmm.... the real question is whether or not the AC is worth it. To me the THAC0 isn't a big deal. By the time you're a high level F/T, you aren't missing much anyway. Getting my THAC0 to go from -9 to -14 isn't really much of an incentive. The question is will that extra 5 points to AC make much of a difference. (I'm assuming I'll get to around level 25ish as a thief during ToB.) I'm not sure if it will. I've had characters with AC better than -10 and they still get hit.

I'm also considering a rather odd party. I'm in BG1 now, in Cloakwood, and my character is chaotic neutral. I've also kicked Imoen out of the party, and as such, I don't really feel in any way compelled if I'm RPing to take her along in BG2. So she's out. Also as a CN character, I'm thinking of putting together an odd assortment. of characters I rarely use for one reason or another:

Me - F/T
Jaheira
Anomen
Haer Dalis'
Valygar

Are definitely going to be included. I considered Cernd, as I rarely take him either, although I'm not sold on that. Considering Korgan - I can probably keep my reputation below 20 pretty easily. Just kill an odd commoner here or there and I should be fine. Maybe replace him with Sarevok in ToB. Considered Nalia, but that's basically the same thing as taking Imoen. Also considering Edwina. I can always get rid of someone in the party in the hell trials to make room if I feel like it.

 

True, it's not really a big bonus. A high level monk will probably have around -15 AC too, but he still gets hit often enough in ToB. Plus if you want to continue using your thief skills you'll be restricted to leather armor, so the AC advantage will be offset somewhat.

In gameplay a F/swashbuckler will probably feel much the same as a normal fighter, whereas a F/Ass will probably feel more like a thief (who is extremely capable at fighting - having more than one attack per round is really a boon).

 

Hmmm... Just had another idea for this character. I'll also be using a bow with him. Ribald sells that long bow (I think it's called Strong Arm or something to that effect) that requires a 19 strength to use, and adds your strength bonus to the damage. When I'm not backstabbing with a staff, that sure seems like the way to go - I'll have the 19 in strength by the end of BG1.

 

I do not believe Strong Arm adds strength bonus -- it just has additional damage. IMO Strong Arm is one of the best bows in the game and with magic arrows outperforms nearly every short bow.

 

You're probably right on just adding additional damage. I didn't look it up before I posted, I just thought of it as something I rarely use, because most of the character who use long bows don't have the requisite 19 in strength, and I'm much more likely to give a strength enhancing item to a melee character than to someone using a bow, whose inventory is going to be stocked with arrows and won't be able to carry a lot of stuff anyway.

But this fighter/thief is going to have a 20 dexterity, two proficiency points in long bows, and once he hits level 13, he should be able to get that bow to a 3.5 ROF, which is the most you're going to get out of a bow without using Tuigan or a fighter with more than two proficiency points in long bow (which I've never even considered doing). I guess an archer would work too.

 

Mental note to self: If you want to include Haer Dalis' in your party, it is ill-advised to rescue him and attempt to do the Planar Prison quest straight out of Irencus' Dungeon. Attempting to do so with 8th and 9th level characters is considerably more difficult - mainly because a good chunk of the enemies you encounter there are unaffected by weapons of less than +2 enchantment.

 

LOL!

 

Yeah - that wasn't fun - I eventually beat my way through it, but it probably took me a couple of dozen reloads.

 

Are you going to try the Aerie-HD three way?

 

No, but that's mainly because I don't particularly like Aerie. I have done it in the past, and due to my current group composition, there just isn't really much of anything that is inclining me to picking up Aerie right now.

My next play through will be evil, and that group obviously won't include her either. It will be me, Korgan, Edwin, Viconia, and probably Jan, just because I don't plan on playing another thief, and I need one.