Organic food

Remove all ads!

So how many and who of you try to source your food locally and/or ensure that it's organic/free-range?

Personally I can't stand the concoctions of nastiness that large-scale producers cover our food with; both pesticides and fertilisers. I honestly don't care if my carrot has been nibbled on by some critter or if my apples are a little smaller than the giants you see in supermarkets. It's the price one ought to pay for the reward of obtaining food from one's environment, in a responsible, ethical and fair way. As to where it's come from (I live in the U.K.) I try to source it from at most mainland Europe - it seems silly for something to have to travel thousands of miles to me when it most likely grows just as well only a few hundred miles away. And if it doesn't, well that's just too bad for me!

 

I try to buy organic and locally-grown food whenever possible. It is more expensive but it is far more healthy and usually produced in an ethical, sustainable manner. The extent to which the modern food supply is messed with and processed is pretty sickening. I'm not just talking about the cruelty of the meat industry - even fresh produce is messed with to a remarkable degree. Few people even realize or even think about how their food magically ends up in supermarkets.

It's somewhat less convenient, because shopping and eating this way rules out about 90% of the food for sale at the average supermarket, but it's worth it to me. I've learned to look for sales so that buying more expensive stuff is easier on the wallet. I also waste far less food than I used to, so for me my grocery bills each month aren't dramatically higher than what I used to pay.

 

I will buy a pesticide ridden, genically enchanced piece of unidentifiable fruit before I'll buy anything "organic."

The whole organic kick is just playing off unquantifiable fears of people who don't understand chemistry. And it's a huge waste of money.

Oh yes, "free range" means "not as tender". Give me meat that's been boxed up since it was born -- it'll melt in your mouth. ANd no, I really don't care how my food is treated as long as it tastes good ... the thing is going to EATEN.

 

I don't consciously try to eat organic, but I sometimes do since I try to avoid those genetically modified vegetables if I can. Partly because Monsanto is evil even by the standards of big businesses, but also because they're supposed to be linked to organ failure and other undesirable things.

And because it's going to be eaten, the animals don't deserve to at least live with a modicum of dignity? I disagree with that. We should strive to minimize our harm to other creatures, even if it comes at a small inconvenience to us.

 

Correct. I prefer them to be killed quickly and painlessly, but it's not required (as in the case of fresh lobster). I'm not sure what you mean by 'dignity' ... Ever been around a cow or chicken? Not the most dignified of animals. These things were bred for stupidity and high fat content. I'm just fine with allowing domesticated animals do what they were bred to do.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Monsanto. Had you said that of R.J. Reynolds or Phillip Morris, I'd be on that band wagon. But I can't put a company whose innovations have fed millions on the same playing field as companies whose products kill and they know it.

 

I follow T2's approach. Just because something is natural does not mean it's good for you. Snake venom or molten lava are perfectly natural but I'm not drinking them. I don't mind a few harmless chemicals on my fruit if it means they're not disease ridden. Organic food is usually nicer to justify the premium paid for it but it's not something I care about.

"Food miles" are likewise a load of nonsense. It's 4 times better for the environment for someone in Britain to buy lamb from New Zealand than from Britain. If you're shopping in big supermarkets the ecnomies of scale act like mass public transport for food. Per unit the energy used is very low. I do try to support local businesses but I'm not motivated by environmental concerns.

 

"Dignity" may not have been the correct word, I simply think that all life is sacred enough to warrant the effort of having it thrive under the best conditions, even if it comes at a price to us. Even if free range makes the meat not as good, it's worth it to me to know that the animal had some semblance of an existence rather than being holed up in a box all the time until it was big enough to kill.


It's not that Monsanto's products kill, but their trade policies do. Farmers in India become financially stuck by the "terminator genes" and other things in their crops and it's led to thousands of suicides due to the financial stresses. They have salesman go to these villages and hype up their seeds, not knowing the fact that even if the plants don't terminate after one generation, they're not allowed to use the next generation of seeds due to copyright laws. When you have the budget of an Indian cotton farmer, small things like not being able to replant your seeds (which should be a given) mean the difference between carving out an existence and having nothing at all.

 

The suicide rate in India is far more complex than that. If it were only the "terminator gene" then why did the rate of suicide rise five years before the Bt strain of cotton seed were introduced and why has the level been relatinve constant since that time?

These arguments sound very similar to the 'toddler vaccinations lead to autism' arguments which are based more on emotion than fact.

 

I'm going to try going my own veg and keep it fairly organic, will give me something to get me active, and get more fresh veg into my diet and that of my partners!

At the moment we mainly buy greens for the animals which leaves less for us. I can't afford the luxury of organic food in the grocery shopping so I can't really claim to be a fan of organic though I'd probably buy it if I could afford it.

You can't beat fresh veg though, so hopefully growing my own will taste even better

I personally quite like the idea - maybe not the reality - of this

 

Mrs. Snook is a big proponent of the "organic" movement. Personally, I think it is a load of hogwash to convince suburban housewives to spend more money on expensive vegetables. She is totally convinced that they taste better. I just know they cost way more. I've been paying three times the price for "free range" chicken for years and I've never noticed a differnce when I pick up a "Purdue" chicken instead.

A mouse in my garage. DEAD!, A snake in my porch. DEAD!, A mosquito closing in on my arm. DEAD! Neidermeyer. DEAD!

 

I don't give a rip if my food is organic or not. In fact, the claims made by many organic food producing companies are

I don't think they taste better - arguably worse in fact - and I don't think they are any healthier for you. Just by growing an apple tree organically doesn't magically make anything happen to the apples it produces that makes them better for you or more healthy. That's just genetics. The only difference you'll see between an apple tree treated with pesticides and insecticides and chemically enhanced fertilizer compared to one that isn't, is the treated one will likely be bigger, healthier, and produce more apples.

I don't have any problem with people who chose to buy organic food. Heck, it's your body, your money, and your mouth that has to eat the stuff - go nuts if it makes you happy. The problem I have is with people who are on the "organic food crusade" for lack of a better term. I'm not saying this label applies to anyone here, but there are people in the world that think all food should be grown/raised organically. To me, this is about the most inhumane thing I can think of.

Organic food has lower yields than non-organic food. It's just a fact. If you live in the western world, you see this at work by paying a higher price in the supermarket. But if ALL food was produced organically, we'd have a major problem. We could only produce enough food worldwide to feed about 5.5 - 6 billion people. The world's population is now nearly 7 billion. So to the organic food crusaders, my simple question is which billion people would you like to see starve to death?

Like I said, I have no problem with what a person decides to eat for himself, but I have a major problem when they try to tell other people what they should eat. There are people in the world every day that don't have enough to eat. We should be doing all we can to produce more food - not less. Until you're placed in a position where you have trouble feeding you and yours, maybe you should cut others a little bit of slack in their decisions.

 

My dad is semi-retired and grows a lot of his own veg on his allotment. The difference in taste from literally being picked out of the field just hours before, to being on your plate is amazing. I guess it's the same as when you buy a fish and chips near the seaside, it's always a million times better, as the fish was more than likely caught that day.

However I don't think supermarket 'organic' is any better than 'GM' stuff. It's just a swizz to get you to spend more money. I do find battery farms etc for animals a bit shocking. The way some of them get treated is abysmal. Some animals don't even have room to turn or move. I think there are EU rulings in place to try and make conditions better for farm animals, but most farmers in the EU just blatantly ignore them, so they can keep the baseline cost down. However I don't care enough about it to look for 'free range' on a product and spend more for it.

 

I'd say that's spoken like a man not used to opening his cherries to check for little bundles of extra protein . To be frank, as long as the products aren't directly harmful to me, and the taste does not suffer for it, I am okay with some chemistry being used in the growing of the produce.

Then again, I've had the misfortune of trying vegetables with the consistency and taste of moistened cardboard. If the only way to get a bag of apples that tastes like apples is to pay more for it, well, it's a cost I'm sometimes willing to pay.

 

I'm sure we could think of a few

In all seriousness though, whilst most stuff is safe and I think most of the organic warriors are one nut short of a harvest (my step father is one for example) though I can see arguments in certain cases, hence why I think it should always be an option for people.

For example whilst regulations are pretty strict in many countries - there are some which aren't as stringent. There are also people who have chemical sensitivities - which admittedly are usually more reactive to meats and eggs than vegetables.

 

I laughed.

 

Th rate of suicides for the whole population and the rate for the farmers aren't exactly a fair comparison, if that's what you are talking about. Obviously things like this are hard to prove empirically, but the motive has been attributed to the overwhelming debt in the face of crop failure. Part of this is because of the falling water table, but the role played by not being able to save money by something as simple as using a new generation of seeds has to factor into this, along with the many protests in the region against them.

But really, there's enough reason to put Monsanto on the list of corporate criminals without their relation to such a thing. They settled out of court (like businesses always do) when there was a big class action suit against them; they weren't complying with regulations and caused cancer to tons of people in the areas of their factories. Hell, Forbes admitted their mistake in naming them "Company of the year" in 2009 because of all their unethical practices. The secretly dumped PCB-laden waste into an Alabama creek, were found guilty of bribery in Indonesia and false advertising in France and South Africa, covered up their dioxin contamination and have been accused to doctoring studies, they sue small farmers when their seeds cross-pollinate with Monsanto's even though it's an inevitability and can't be helped if the farms are right next to each other. Really, there's just too much to list.


I'm a bit concerned that everyone seems to be against the organic movement. Sure, everything can't be organic and locally-made, but the modern food system is unsustainable and hopelessly dependent upon fossil fuels. The sensible (or at least the ones I find sensible) organic crusaders aren't really concerned about having everything be local farms so much as having a healthier, more sustainable diet in general. There's some pretty scary correlations between modern diets and serious health problems.

 

Now, I'm no Chemist, that's for certain, but there is a very noticable difference of our youth and how their bodies are maturing compared to when I was a kid. My old lady is in the Med field and has some pretty educated feelings as well. We buy local organic(not everything but what we can, meats and veggies mostly) because the pesticides and other chemicals can and do have some harmful effects on the bodies, espcially of young girls. There were no D-Cups in my sixth grade class. Check out a sixth grade classroom room these days. Boobs galore. Is that not coming from what we intake into our systems? Is it not also affecting the metabolism of todays wrold as well? Possibly affecting larger amounts weight gain?

 

Hmm, I'd say that has little to do with pesticides or fertilizers. My first guess - if the whole thing holds statistically and isn't just a freak case or the result of better nutrition than most previous generations - would be hormones used in meat production.

 

Blades can tell us from first hand experience in oh, about 7 or 8 years, when his daughter is 12.