Evil party questions

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Well let's see... the only weapons in the game that give MR are the two paladin specific swords, so that's out. And armors aren't particularly good either. There's Enkidu's Plate in ToB, which is only +5%, and then there's the Human Flesh Armor, which is very nice at +20%, and since Viconia is evil, you could actually consider using it (although it doesn't provide great AC). Shield of the Lost gives +5% as well.

With rings, all clerics get a ring of Lothandar/Helm/Talos upon reaching 25th level. They all give the ability to memorize an additional 6th and 7th level spell and +5% MR. Of course the Ring of Gaax gives you +10%.

Finally, the biggest source would be amulets. There's a 5% MR amulet you get from the beholder at the end of the Unseeing Eye quest. The Amulet of Power you get/take from Aran Linvail gives 5% and negative plane protection. Amulet of the Seldarine at the end of SoA gives 10%. No idea what it's called offhand, but there's a drow merchant in Ust Natha that sells an amulet that gives 10% MR as well.

So there's definitely ways to get there, but it will require picking just the right equipment.

Really? Anomen can obtain up to grand mastery in cleric weapons, and gets multiple attacks per round. I found him to be nearly as good as a fighter in melee combat. The problem with Viconia is that you're stuck with one attack per round. (Well, I guess you can get two if you dual wield, but 1 attack with the main hand weapon.) Anomen with the Flail of the Ages is a beast, and is certainly the best character to make use of it unless your PC is planning on using it.

 

I like scripting myself because I find the default ones by Bioware a bit lacking and the community scripts are just too big and a lot of features don't function (I tested some).
Therefore if you have some scripts that work for you and that you have tested,
please share it.

I have one, e.g. that only casts long term buffs (Armor, Stoneskin, Ironskin) and low level heal spells, when not in combat, plus a detect trap component for my thieves.

 

Aldeth: Anomen gets 2 attacks per round with specialization in a weapon. The THAC0 for a 7th level fighter is 14, which is the same as a 10th level cleric, plus he gets either +1 or +2 to hit from specialization and up to +4 damage. I don't count strength bonuses because there are enough strength enhancing items in the game for everyone. If you add the grandmastery "fix" he get another +1 to hit, +1 damage and one-half attack per round. Although this is good in the early game (and possibly mid-game) by late in the game these boosts really are not enough. The mediocre THAC0 will be a serious drawback on the front line. At that point you look at spells and missiles for any spellcaster and Viconia beats him in both categories (even with his specialization). It could just be my playing style though.

 

That's probably it. Whenever I have Anomen in the party - which admittedly is not that often - I always count him as one of my front line melee guys. Cleric THACOs aren't that bad honestly. The always lag behind fighters, but they get a 2 THACO reduction every three levels, which is much beyond any non-fighter class. Add in the bonus for the weapon, specialization, and strength enhancing items, I never found Anomen had a hard time hitting things.

 

It is actually +1 full attack with the fifth point spent.
I would actually be interested what the original ADnD values of Grandmastery are, couldn't find it in the net.

 

Yeah, I'd agree with the whole 'cleric is almost a fighter' thing -- but I don't find Viconia especially lacking as compared to Anomen. He's 'a little' better in melee combat, a little worse in missile (unless you make him GM in slings), but lacking in spellcasting (especially before his upgrade). I like having an extra Dispel Magic and for extra 4th level spell you can always choose Holy Power -- at which point Viconia is at least as good in melee as Anomen.

No. A fighter will get one-half attack with specialization (**) and another half attack with grand mastery (*****) for one extra attack total -- only if you added the Grandmastery "fix" mod. A fighter also gains a half attack at 7th and 13th levels. This makes for three attacks per round total ... four if you dual wield ... five if you have kundane or belm in conjunction with dual wielding (which goes to ten with improved haste).

The original AD&D values which were not cummulative:

* - weapon can be used without penalty
** - +1 to hit, +2 damage, +1/2 att/rnd (added all bonuses)
*** - +3 to hit, +3 damage, +1/2 att/rnd (added +2 to hit and +1 damage)
**** - +3 to hit, +4 damage, +1/2 att/rnd (added +1 damage)
***** - +3 to hit, +5 damage, +1 att/rnd (added +1 damage, +1/2 att/rnd)

 

It is:
+1/2 with (**) and +3/2 with (*****) <- total numbers, not cummulative
That is beside the usual added attacks of fighter levels (1/2 at 7th and another 1/2 at 13th).
Check the 2da files (I used the ease of use version of unnerfed progression).

Also it is the same in BG1, unmodified.
You can check it in the 2da files, too.
And it actually works this way, I tested it.

Could it be that you use another mod that gives only 1 full attack instead of the 3/2 (like in BG1) ?
[Which would be more balanced and conform with the original rules, too, just as a sidenote]

I modified the 2DA myself for only 1 full attack for balance reasons, that's why I got aware of this +3/2 issue.

 

Can't you check it by SKing a Fighter to ***** and then have him enter combat?

 

I would agree that it appears to work that way if you have the grand mastery fixpack installed (I do). In my latest playthrough where I'm using the BG1NPCs in BG2 mod, I picked up Coran, who, when you receive him, has 3 proficiency points in long bows, and two proficiency points in daggers. I also have the mod installed that allows multi-classed fighters to assign proficiency points all the way up to grand mastery, just as dual classed fighters can.

I placed all of Coran's subsequent proficiency points into daggers, and he eventually attained grand mastery in them. I equipped him with the Firetooth throwing dagger, and he had 5 attacks per round. Two from the weapon itself, a 3rd from being in excess of 13th level, an extra 1/2 for the specialization, another 1/2 for the 3rd point, and apparently a full attack for grand mastery.

EDIT:

That's one of those facts I've always accepted on faith alone. Belm specifically points out the extra 1/2 attack. Kundane, AFAIK, does not.

 

Perhaps I used a different mod, I know Sarevok only had 3 attacks/round with Ravager in ToB.

 

Grand mastery is interesting.

IWD and vanilla BG1 have it where GM gives you a total of 1 bonus attack. Nice and worth it.

BG2 has it only ever give you +1/2 attack. Not really worth much...

the "true fixes" I have seen do not do the one from IWD and the like and in fact does it like the combat and tactics book from late AD&D (skills and powers series) in which case you get +1 1/2 attacks which is really powerful (though it does lack the extra stuff like knockdown).


Personally I prefer Anomen. MR is kind of meh to me and the extra spells just don't mean much at BG2 time. He is also better at missile combat in the long run since the dex bonus becomes irrelevant by mid to late BG2 but extra attacks are always good. He is also tougher than her. Viconia's biggest advantage is the MR but that is a defensive benefit and I find the more offensive anomen is more useful at nearly every point in the game (also notice that he gets more of a benefit than viconia with that belt or well equal total HP gain since he gets extra HP for high con and she does not).

Though I do not care for his attitude pre test however but that is another issue.

 

Update...

Got my Kensai levels back in the Underdark, which is pretty fast considering I dualled in the Spellhold maze. Backstabbing has much improved (current record stands at 194 damage on a crit), making me feel a lot happier about this whole Thief thing. I still can't get over the whole "staff wielding hitman" thing, but I can't argue with the results anymore.

Both my script and the Boots of Speed have proven very helpful; when I turn on stealth mode, my character hides at the earliest opportunity, so I now spend combats darting in and out of the shadows, backstabbing almost every round.

I cleared out the Beholder, Illithid and Kuo-Toa lairs. Easiest time I've had with any party (though last time I had failed to realize that it takes Chaotic Commands and not Free Action to protect against stun.) Then that stupid demon lord ruins the promising deal I had with Matron Mother Ardulace, so I killed him (Lower Resistance and Magic Missiles, since I had no +4 weapons) and then exterminated the drow. I then crushed Adalon (more Lower Resistance and Magic Missiles) and fought Drizzt (which was hard!).

Currently listening to Korgan, Edwin and Viconia complain about the +1 Reputation that came with several easy and lucrative leftover Chapter 2 quests.

NPC: Thank you, Six, for slaying that rich bastard, looting his corpse, slaughtering his cronies, and plundering his abode!
Reputation has increased: +1
Gained gold: 2500
Korgan- I've had better times drowning in gutter water, bleeding from every orifice dontchaknow?
Edwin- Could my opinion of this group drop ANY lower? Evidently so.
Viconia- Surface dwellers can be so stupid.

There's just no pleasing some people... except by backstabbing a beggar in the streets, I suppose.

I'm currently in the obligatory 4-day waiting period.

Damn, I killed that stupid ogre. My party was all like "Raagh, monsters! Kill kill kill, yeah cool!!"

Hmm... Viconia + Human Flesh + Ring of Gaxx + Amulet of Power + Holy Symbol = 105% I better pay a certain Demi-Lich a visit. I'd prefer to give the Ring of Gaxx to someone else, though. I like not getting level drained while trying to turn undead. Then again, I'm not running around in that Human Flesh all the time, so some switching equipment around will be required anyway whenever I plan to laugh at mages while they unload their spell repertoire.

Kaligun's Amulet of Magic Resistance. Forgot to buy that. Thought it only gave 5%. Said merchant is no longer among us, sadly.

Exactly. Even if he hangs back and slings bullets, Anomen still slings up to twice as many bullets as Viconia. I personally like to have my party members do something useful when they're not busy depleting their spell books. I can't say Clerics have that much to offer in the midst of combat anyway. The only thing that comes to mind is Greater Restoration (the ToB version), but that only takes 2 seconds to cast, so there's still time for two attacks after that.

In that case you'll probably like what I did. The script does exactly what you describe (and of course a few other things), and I am currently on my second playthrough with it. I should have it hosted at Spellhold Studios any day now.

It never ceases to amaze me just how popular this "fix" is. BioWare sure got a lot of complaints for this particular nerf. I wonder why they did it. It's not like Fighters would have overshadowed the other classes.

Belm gives +1, and says so in the text. And Kundane... *opens Near Infinity* damn! Kundane also gives +1, though it doesn't mention it at all! Now where did I sell that thing? *has Near Infinity search 100 saves...* Bel Dalemark, eh? *runs off to buy it back*

After passing his test and nearing the end of his romance, he suddenly became very friendly:

Anomen- Certainly.
Anomen- Of course.
Anomen- Very well!

 

I agree he becomes much more tolerable after passing his test. The fact it buffs him is just a nice bonus.

 

Update...

Did some leftover Chapter 2 quests. I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to leave for Spellhold so soon. I was afraid Immy would fall too far behind otherwise, but those Chapter 2 quests sure are easy Experience that I needed then more than now.

I have Reputation 17 now (through all selfish deeds), and the party is pretty mad at me. At least I can now turn into the Slayer any time things might get out of hand.

Whacked Kangaxx. Cloned Scrolls of Protection from Undead made it rather easy, except he somehow imprisoned a berserk Korgan (so I cloned a Scroll of Freedom.)

Then I forgot to quicksave and said something funny to Korgan when he asked me for money to rejoin the party, so he attacked me. I didn't feel like doing the Kangaxx thing again, so I simply Ctrl+Qed Korgan.

Anyway, Viconia has a nice new ring now.

Whacked the Twisted Rune. Gets easier every time, even though Edwin's clones kept getting wasted by True Sight before they could cast Spell Immunity: Divination and an Improved Hasted Korgan almost killed himself on Shandalar's Fire Shield. The things to watch out for seem to be keeping your mages out of Shandalar's Horrid Wilting and not aggroing Layene until the rest is dead. After that, if you back off after aggroing her, she does a nice job wasting her spells on her Pit Fiend.

Edwin has a nice new staff now. I'd take it for myself, but I cannot Use Any Item yet.

Next I'll be hunting dragons. I need a certain key to unlock a certain door in the sewers to get a certain hammer. Then I'll see if Korgan is better with Frostreaver main and Crom Faeyr off, or with Crom main and Kundane off.

 

Easiest way to do it would be Amulet of Power and the Holy Symbol to get to 80%, and then keep the Human Flesh in your backpack for when you need it. Having 80% magic resistance is fine unless you know you're going to be up against a mage, in which case you throw on your other armor, and even liches will empty their spell book on you. One word of warning though. Enemy mages will summon creatures, including casting Gate, and 100% resistance to magic is good for pretty much squat against that.

It's a balancing act if you want Imoen. Sure, you can get more experience points, but those are XPs Imoen is missing out on. I should also point out that one of the reasons it's "easy experience" is that you are a much higher level than what you would have been in Chapter 2 if you did them at the time. Sure, all Chapter 2 quests are doable in Chapter 2, but I don't think you'd find the Windspear Hills, the Planar Sphere, or the Unseeing Eye to be "easy" right out of Irenicus' Dungeon.

I can tell you right now, you're going to want Crom Faeyr main, and either Kundane/Belm off. Crom Faeyr is often used as an offhand weapon, but only when it's paired with something that does something great in your main hand. Like Flail of the Ages, with it's high chance of slowing the target. Uness the two points of elemental damage is something you need - and the only thing that springs to mind would be trolls that Crom insta-kills - CF will do more damage than Frostreaver. So since CF is your biggest damage weapon, it just makes sense to get it an additional attack by placing Kundane or Belm in your offhand. Now, once you get your hands on the Axe of the Unyielding (especially once upgraded), then it's a no brainer that you want that in your main hand and CF in the offhand.

 

I like to just run out on them and let them fight their own Pit Fiend.

I wasn't referring to all Chapter 2 quests.

I mean... I could try to free Kangaxx fresh out of Chateau Irenicus, too. Probably wouldn't be a huge success, though it could be an interesting challenge. Hmm... snatch Daystar, give to Minsc, go berserk... maybe set some traps or grab a Scroll of Protection from Undead... who knows?

The Windspear Hills hold little of interest before Chapter 6 if you don't need Carsomyr, and grabbing the Hammer of Thunderbolts (which you can't upgrade until Chapter 6 anyway) is perhaps even harder than killing the Elder Brain.

Not doing the Unseeing Eye before Spellhold was a mistake, though. I bought the Shield of Balduran already, and the rest of the quest is easy. The ghoultown lich only shows up if you're high level. The Gauntlets of Dexterity and Girdle of Fortitude would have been nice to have in the Underdark.

I expected as much, but I calculated some damages per round against AC -10 anyway:

• Korgan with Frostreaver main and Kundane off, wearing Girdle of Frost Giant Strength: 66.7
• Korgan with Frostreaver main and Crom off: 90.4
• Korgan with Crom main and Kundane off: 106.4
• Kensai/Thief with Staff of Rynn: 45.7 (backstabs for 79.5)
• Viconia with Flail of Ages, wearing Girdle of Hill Giant Strength: 8.8 (only hits about every other round, haven't considered Draw Upon Holy Might, though)
• Edwin with Melf's Minute Meteors: 2.1 (only hits AC -10 on a crit)

This shows that, in the really tough fights at least, Viconia and Edwin aren't much good if they're not casting spells (except for beating up stoneskinned mages), and that Edwin should not even cast Melf's Minute Meteors if it would cause him to put away the Staff of the Magi.

My opinion of Viconia has not improved, and this probably applies to single-classed Clerics (and quite possibly single-classed anything) in general. Earlier access to level 15 skellies, Greater Restoration, and turning the occasional lich is nice but not essential. She fills many roles, but none particularly well.

 

That plan would be disastrous to everyone NOT protected using the scroll. Unlike Protection from Magic, Protection from Undead renders the character invisible to all Undead creatures, even if they cast true sight. So the problem you'd have is that the Demi-lich is a party-required area, and if you have one or two characters protected from undead, he'll start spamming imprisonment against everyone who isn't protected. Meaning that you can win with this method, but everyone not protected will end up imprisoned. Protection from Magic will work, because the lich can still see this character and will repeatedly spam spells at the protected character to no avail.

I agree with that - if you have the Shield of Balduran, it's a walk in the park. The thing that makes the dungeon hard is the beholders, so if you have a beholder solution, no problem.

Agreed. I'll take any dual or multi-classed cleric or druid over Viconia any day.

 

Not if you keep them up against the entrance, just out of sight. I've done it before, though there may have been a Ring of the Ram involved.

 

It's been done using similar methods, but wasting Protection from Undead scrolls when you won't have to if you wait a bit seems a shame.

 

That is funny as I go through the game without using protection from undead scrolls at all (though they certainly would make some places easier).

I would also take a dual or especially multiclass clerics over single class any day in this game. I just find the difference in spells not great enough to overcome my liking of the additional versatility that I can get from either warrior or mage benefits.