BG2 new player - Assassin (Thief)

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Race - Halfling
Class - Thief (Assassin Kit)
No Multi-class just Pure Thief - Assassin.

I am playing Assassin Thief for the first time ever. It's a cool backstab raw power but with just 15 points at level up very important to manage each point carefully before Level 21 to get the most out of it.
Also, I am ready to ignore any point on Detect Traps and Open Locks since initially my focus is only to make the Assassin as Dangerous as possible before reaching TOB.

Now, here are few doubts that need some help from the veterans.

1. Hide in Shadows & Move Silently equation = added together and than the outcome is divided by 2.
But, there's a point at which Thief skills really don't get any better.
I want to know exactly at which point (Score) to STOP investing precious points in 'Hide in Shadows' (HIS) and 'Move Silently' (MS) abilities?
That is whats the best score (not percentages) for HIS & MS.
I am looking forward for a pure and lethal Assassin with the Best HIS and MS score and ready to sacrifice all other abilities.

For example,
I have set HIS = 150, MS =100 at Level 10
Is this enough for entire SOA & TOB as well? I want to level up strong before Level 21 and continuing the same values for TOB.

2. Is there a cap for Assassin's THAC0? Can I have a THAC0 of Zero by the end of Level 20 and continue to improve with Level up?

3. Which monsters are immune to Backstabbing apart from Liches and Dragons?

4. Thanks smilie

 

1. That's not exactly how hide in shadows/move silently works but it's not a bad way of looking at it. You don't need anywhere near 150/100 -- there are items which will give you good bonuses to most of your theiving stats. For hide in shadows and move silently you should acquire The Night's Gift (armor), Boots of Stealth, and the Mercykiller Ring. These three items will give you +55 to hide in shadows and +40 to move silently -- get your totals (with items) above 100 and you'll be fine for most of the game. At some point you will want to stop relying on the items and use other items -- that is the point you want to bump your abilities over 100. You don't really need to sacrifice your other thieving abilities much (plus there are items which bump those abilities as well).

2. The THAC0 peaks at 10 when you hit 22nd level. The assassin get another +1 to hit (decreases the ThAC0 by 1). You can decrease your THAC0 by getting better strength (girdles work well but are better used on a fighter -- strength bonuses don't get multiplied in a backstab) and better weapons. The best weapon for a backstab early on is the Staff of Rynn (+4 to hit and damage). There are also gauntlets which will help you here. But there are better gloves for an assassin. AFAIK the best THAC0 you can get as an assassin (in ToB) is -3 (+6 staff, girdle of fire giant strength for +5, and gauntlets of extraordinary specialization for +1).

3. You find that out on your own ... that's part of the fun and challenge.

A halfling is actually a mediocre choice for an assassin -- a 17 strength has +1 to hit and +1 damage while a 19 strength (half-orc) has a +3 to hit and +7 damage. Of course belts will overcome that strength deficit but typically the belts are best used on fighters (who will save your bacon when your backstab goes haywire). Most other races will start with an 18 strength (+1 to hit, +2 damage) but a magic increase in strength will put them to 19 as well -- the halfling needs two points to really bump them up (which is possible).

The fighter/thief (especially a half-orc) is a better backstabber for most of the game -- they have a much better THAC0. They don't get X7 backstabs but they hit more often which makes up for it (especially when they get the HLA assassination). If they fail at the backstab they have a better chance of survival than does the assassin.

 

I will second T2B's suggestion that a a fighter/thief multiclass is a much better backstabber than a straight assassin. Yes, a F/T will have to "settle" for x5 on backstab as opposed to x7, but the reality is that hardly anything is going to survive even a x5 backstab, with the exception of some of the ToB bosses that just have gobs and gobs of hps.

But the bottom line with assassins is that they basically stop getting better by level 21. Yeah, they still get their 15 skill points every level after that, but by the time you're level 21, you'll have over 100 in everything anyway, making the extra 15 per level superfluous. Fighters also sort of hit a wall at level 20. It's the casters that keep getting more powerful after that because they continue to pack on more high level spells to their arsenal. But because a F/T splits the XPs, by the time you max out both you're already in ToB and you have a far more versatile and powerful character.

I also second T2's point on the HLA assassination. (And keep in mind that as a F/T, you can chose HLAs from either the fighter or thief class, which alone pretty much pushes the F/T as a superior choice.) Assassination allows all of your attacks the following round to do backstab damage. With a thief, it's really no big deal - the most attacks a thief can get off in a given round is 2. But a F/T can get at minimum 4, and possibly 5 depending on your weapon selection. Needless to say 4-5 x5 backstabs will easily exceed the damage of 2 x7 backstabs.

I also think that if you do go with a F/T that the half-orc is the superior choice. Not only do they start with 19 in strength, but they also start with 19 in constitution - which a F/T will benefit from, but a straight thief will not. However, if you really want to play a halfling, the F/T will still be the superior option.

Providing a list of what you can and can't backstab would be really extensive. The general rule of thumb is that if it approximates the shape of a humanoid, it can be backstabbed. So giants can be backstabbed (even though I don't know how a halfling could possibly reach their back), while things like mustard jellies and beholders cannot. If it walks on two legs, chances are the answer is yes.

 

I will disagree with you on the fact that an assassin has no use for skill points after 21. There's 7 skills and you get 15 skill points per level. At lvl 21 you'd have gotten 315 skill points. You start with 40, plus however many your race gets, plus however much you get from your dex bonus. That still leaves you well short of 700 points. A normal thief gets 25 per lvl so would reach 525 skill points by lvl 21. So for a normal thief or swashbuckler you're right in that you can have most skills at around 100, but for an assassin you're blatantly wrong.

Plus having more than 100 in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently is certainly useful. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure you get huge penalties to Hide in Shadows if you try to do it in a brightly lit area.

I'm soloing a half-orc Fighter/Assassin through the whole series right now and he's at around 20/24 at the moment, and has 100 in 4 skills, a 5th at 70 and two others at zero. With gear he has 120 in hide in shadows and a fair bit less in move silently and still he fails to hide in shadows quite regularly. It only really seems to work reliably if I'm standing in a shadowy part.

I would say that having about 150 in hide in shadows (perhaps also move silently, i'm not sure how much effect that one has) would be a bare minimum to be able to do hide in shadows successfully regardless of the circumstances - excepting enemies nearby, of course.

I do agree that F/T combinations are stronger than straight thiefs or assassins. A single class thief will always have only one (melee) attack (aside from items that give you more) and will have rather poor THAC0 (excepting the swashbuckler, but that one doesn't have a backstab multiplier).

Instead, you could dual a fighter (any kit) to a thief at lvl 13 and you could still reach lvl 39 as a thief. You'll then have pretty much as good a thief as a straight thief, but you'll also have a better THAC0 and more attacks per round. The downside is of course that you'll be lacking a thief until you dual and that it will only come to it's full power quite a while after most of the rest of your party has.

A F/T multi-class is easier early game and has some extra choice in HLAs, which makes it a better allrounder than a single or dualled thief. You'll only get most of your skills at or above 100 by the end of the game, though.

 

Counterpoint to henkie:

1. Imoen is a good enough thief in SoA and ToB -- you don't need to max everything. It is more convenient to have 100+ in everything so you don't need to swap equipment around (rings, gloves and such) but it is not necessary. A score of 75-80 in find traps, pickpocketing and open locks is all you'll ever need.

2. High values of Hide in Shadows and Move Silently are necessary if you want to backstab in well lit areas -- like next to a light source or outside during the day. The vast majority of backstabs are not done under those conditions. My thieves very rarely fail when the combined scores are above 100; even then you have a warning and can run away before you're seen.

3. Fighter/assassin is only available with some fan-based mods or by cheating (using Shadowkeeper is common). I'm not against it, in fact the fighter/assassin was one of theoriginal multiclasses for half-orc way back in 1st edition AD&D and is an incredibly fun character to play.

4. I'd recommend against dual-class for a beginning player (multiclass is fine though). There are some significant disadvantages which are difficult to overcome if you're not familiar with the gaming system.

5. (not related to henkie's comments) Save often. Thieving skills will get you in trouble quickly in the game. It really sucks when you can't enter a building (or map) again without everyone attacking you. So save and then do your thieving, if you mess up you can load your saved game.

 

I forget to mention but playing SOA + TOB installed.
Also, installed BG2 Fixpack.

With Fixpack, Halfling get Shorty bonuses and penalties to Giants. Their movement rate helps a lot early since most unique items are available in the middle or late in game.

I will never use Assassin as full fledged Hero but try to solo Chapters as much within the reach and ability of the Assassin. So, Assassin's exclusive Poison ability plus Backstabbing combined with better weapon, for instance, Celestial fury along with more options wide open for future growth in second best ability "Detect Illusion" and "Use Any item" will be more rewarding for the Assassin since neither Yoshimo nor Jan has that effective thief personality to boot. By Soloing Assassin I can have an exclusive thief ready to kick ass in TOB along with the best fighters already available in the game.

But, I have never played TOB since SOA is the first play through and it's very unfortunate that TOB has little to offer for my Assassin to succeed against tough battles. Because Assassin really kicks butt and makes soloing a lot of fun.

According to you I will now stop at HIS - 150 and MS - 150 and increase other abilities from thereon.

Thanks..

But, Neither Multi-class nor dual-class offer the ungodly "Poison ability' that's why I chose Assassin to solo.
I will definitely play on these combinations and understand them better.

If TOB is really tough than what about High Level Abilities for the Pure thief Assassin?
Do HLA's have any significance for the Assassin in TOB?

 

The poison ability becomes less useful as the opponents get tougher -- they simply make their save versus the poison.

 

If you're ok with taking two thieves, then you're right. I normally don't, though. But like you say, there's still potions and gear that you can use to boost your thief's skills.

It's probably because I don't use thieves much outside of soloing, and the fact that I'm soloing one right now, but I do tend to want to be able to HIS anywhere and anytime. If only to be able to run away from a tough fight.

As T2 mentions, poison loses it's usefulness later in the game. Early on it will help you a lot and it helped me a lot in BGTutu and some fights in SoA, but in ToB either most enemies will make their saves, or they have so many hitpoints that the poison ability doesn't do much. Still, it may work on some enemy mages.

HLA's for assassins are the same as for any other thief. The ones you'll want to get are the Use Any Item and the spike traps. Some utility use for time trap can be found too. Basically what you'd want to get for any thief.

 

Naw ... no need for two thieves. I was just using the very marginal skills of Imoen as an example of all that's required for a thief. Better is ... well ... better, but you can be pretty marginal and still get through (even if soloing).

I decided to solo a cleric/thief because I couldn't play either very well ... it ended up being so overpowered it was boring but I got really good at backstabs and the various HLAs. Now both are really fun to have in a party instead of just taking up space for when they're "needed."

 

what mods let you have multiclassed kits? I've always had to use Shadowkeeper to make a cleric/assassin or fighter/assassin. Even then it's a PITA to get those level 1 abilities of both classes.