Looking for general advice for a noob

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I have been playing BG2 and loved it but Icewind Dale hack and slash system might be even more my style.


I think I want a Fighter/Mage or any sort of spellsword. Could someone give me some pointers on how to make a decent one?


I don't need to have the best party but I want one that works here are a few starting questons I have.

1. Whats a good basic party to start off with?

2. Anything to avoid or anything I must have?

3. Any stat that can be dumped?

4. Any basic info that you wish you knew when you started the game?

5. Best weapons for a Fighter/Mage?

Thanks for your time.


This game seems even more complicated then BG2. I want to create a Spellsword type character. How and when do I multiclass? So, I can use melee weapons but still uses spells to buff myself?

 

This is the IWD II forum. Are you playing IWD or IWD II? They have completely different game engines. IWD uses a very similar game engine version to the BG series, which is based off of 2nd edition D&D. IWD II utilizes a 3rd edition D&D engine, which has different Stat adjustments for RAces, different Stat tables, different Multi-class options, etc.....

 

Yes, sorry I am playing Icewind Dale 2. I am going to forget everything else for the moment and just focus on my main character. I want him to be a spellsword. Any advice on how to do this? For example.

1. When should I take mage levels and when should I take fighter levels?

2. Stats?

3. What weapon should I use?

4. What makes the class tick?

 

In Icewind Dale 2 you don't technically have a "main character." You can create a party of up to 6 characters, but none of them is any more or less important to the story than the rest.

In third edition there is a prestige class called the Spellsword that has special abilities. Such a prestige class does not exist in IWD2, but you could certainly create a fighter/mage type character.

A Human Fighter4/MageX could work. 4 levels of fighter gives you a good number of feats AND allows you to get weapon specialization in your preferred weapon (i.e. 3 PIPs in that weapon), which boosts damage and your to hit (via weapon focus, which is 2 pips). I wouldn't take too many fighter levels, as this will really weaken your magical capabilities.

There are many, many ways you could slice this cat however. IWD2 and DnD 3x in general, are all about having many options.

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For overall party makeup, you can make nearly anything work, but a good rule of thumb is to have 2 tanks, 2 healers and 2 arcane casters. Ensure that one of those can pick up thieving abilities (usually 1 or 2 levels of thief is enough, and always take thief at level 1 for bonus skill points). You also want a diplomat, with high cha. A sorcerer with decent int is a good candidate for this, as is a paladin (who can also wield the Holy Avenger sword). A sorcerer with a single level of paladin is also popular, as this can give your sorcerer some very high saves, assuming your have a high CHA (which you should). I personally like to include a bard in my parties as my diplomat. They are decent fighters, with armored arcana they can wear light armor with no casting penalties. They also have some great songs, decent arcane spells and healing spells. If it were me, I'd probably substitute your spellsword idea with this concept. Bards get great defensive spells to increase their staying power in combat, which is essentially what the spellsword is about.

This is really a game where you want to focus on building a cohesive party rather than focus on each character individually. I suggest you take a look at the Ultimate Powergaming Party (UPP) and/or the Jukka's Ulimate Powergaming Party (JUPP), both of which can be found on this site. It has some good "powergaming" party suggestions that would likely be right up your powergaming alley.

So um, playing IWD2 now? I hope you didn't end up spoiling BG2 with all the cheating in of items and the like. We tried to warn you many many times! The game is well worth finishing!!!!!

 

Thanks Marceror (sorry if I botched the SN) you are the best and deserve respect.

What happend is I have been waiting for Torchlight 2 forever but it won't stop lagging on me. After two days of trying I gave up but I still want a more action oriented game to play along side BG2. So, here I am.

A few more things this game is insane in its choices.

1. If I want to dual wield again, would it be better to go Rogue 4 and Wizard X?


2. What weapon type would be best as my primary weapon type? long swords, daggers, mace?


3. Could you give me a quick run down of needed stats? Should I max STR or IQ or Dex? I was thinking of making all 3 my priority.

 

You're certainly welcome.

Not really. The problem with rogue vs. fighter is that rogues do not receive bonus feats like fighters do (a level 4 fighter gets 3 more feats than a level 4 rogue). And to be a good dual wielder, you need two feats (two weapon fighting and ambidexterity). Without those feats you take major penalties to your attack bonuses when dual wielding. Another option is to take a level of ranger, which gets both of those feats for free at level 1, as long as he/she uses light or no armor.

On the other hand, rogue and wizard are a great combo due to both classes relying on intelligence (yep, choices)

Some will disagree, but for a dual wielder I like to use small blades. There are a number of good shortswords in the game. And if you don't use a light weapon in your offhand, you will again receive attack penalties. So might as well commit to small blades and get weapon focus bonuses in both hands. Short blades can also benefit from weapon finesse feat, which uses your dex bonus over strength for your attacks. Because you have limited points to spend on your attributes, going with a higher dex

Spoiler

One of your first +5 weapons (IIRC it's THE first and only for a very long time) will be a short sword

I would max INT for your caster. I'd probably max DEX next, as with weapon finesse this will help your attacks, your armor class and your reflex saves. Don't go too low on strength - as high as you can go I guess - but you also want to make sure you have some room for CON. More CON equals more hitpoints. Oh, and in 3.0 only even numbers matters for bonuses (so 12 CON gets you +1 HP per level, 13 is also +1 per level, and 14 is +2 per level).

Don't go too low on WIS, as this will lower your will saves overall.

 

READ THE MANUAL! Stats are very different. 18 STR give +4 bonus to Hit and Damage.

2-handed Weapons rule the day. They do x1.5 Str damage. Ex. 18 Str character with a Greatsword would deal 2d6(weapon damage) + 6 (str x1.5) Str damage.

You will be choosing Proficiencies AND Feats for your characters. So I say again, READ THE MANUAL THOROUGHLY!

F/M characters are not anywhere near the most powerful builds for this game. Though any party can realistically beat the game. Barbarians are monsters! Especially Fig(4)/Barb(x) builds. IMO, Clerics rule the day as tehy can tank withte best of them. My last playthrough utilized 3 Cleric Builds, a Druid Buld, a Rog(1)/Wiz(x) and a Sorcerer, no warriors.

Also, really watch out when Multi-calssing, as bad combos can cause XP penalties in 20% penalty chunks. . The engine utilizes a dynamic leveling system and it recognizines yur party level and adjust the XP accordingly. UPP/JUPP elaborate on this I believe. READ THEM! Drow and Deep Gnomes are awesome

 

Only bought the game through the web so all info must come from online sources.


So, I think I will go with a few Clerics, Rouge 1 Wizard X


BUT for my "main" character just answer me this.

Would it be better to go Fighter/Wizard or Ranger/Wizard? I am a sucker for spellswords.

 

As BoV touched on, multiclassing in many cases incurs xp penalties. You don't want these so you need to plan carefully.

As long as a multiclass character keeps their various class levels even (technically, within one level of each other) there is no xp penalty. For every class that is more than 1 level different than the other class(es) there is a 20% xp penalty.

So a fighter3/ranger3/rogue2 does not incur an exp penalty. A fighter 4/ranger3/rogue2 incurs a 20% penalty however, because fighter 4 and rogue 2 are more than 1 level apart. A fighter 5/ranger 3/rogue 2 incurs a 40% xp penalty because fighter is more than one level different from ranger and from rogue.

That said, every character has a favored class, which is never counted against them in multiclassing. Check each race to find out what it is. For Drow it is different based on your gender. For humans and half elves the favored class is whatever class has the most levels.

So now when we go back to that fighter 5/ranger3/rogue 2, and say that the character is a dwarf (favored class: fighter) there is no xp penalty, because fighter is not counted against the character for multiclass xp penalties. This character just has to make sure that the rogue and ranger levels stay no more than one level apart from each other.

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You could go ranger 1/fighter 2/wizard X

1 level of ranger (which you should take first by the way) will give you two weapon fighting and ambidexterity for free (assuming you use light or no armor). Fighter 1 gives you a free feat of your choice and fighter 2 gives you another free feat of your choice.

So in 3 level you gain 4 bonus feats. You could now have twf, ambidexterity, and perhaps weapon finesse and combat expertise (sacrifice attack bonus to gain additional AC... a very effective defensive tactic).

All of your remaining levels would be in wizard, so you could still become a very powerful caster.

Human would be a suggested race to avoid xp penalties, gain an extra feat at level 1 (how about weapon focus: shortsword here), and an extra skill point per level. Humans rule in 3.0 by the way. You also get a feat at level 1 regardless of race, so by level 3 you loaded up with feats and would be quite powerful.

The drawback here is that you won't get weapon specialization, which gives +2 damage per hit with your chosen weapon. You can't gain that until fighter level 4 (only a fighter can obtain this feat). If you wanted that with this build, you would need to go ranger3/fighter4/wizard X to avoid xp penalties. I wouldn't recommend that though, as you will have to sacrifice a lot of caster levels. It's up to you though.

By the way, if you're going with a wizard you might as well have 2 or 3 alternate class levels, as you will not gain access to higher level spells until after you've gained the ability to cast them. What I mean is, you will have spell slots for them, but will not be able to purchase the spells from a vendor until later. 2 or 3 non-wizard classes pretty much balances this out, so you can buy the spells when you are able to cast them.

 

I see but if I am a Human I could go Figher 4 levels and Wizard X and still be fine right? Because their favored class is whichever is higher? Correct?



If say I want a Druid, 2 Clerics, pure Wizard, MC and Rogue/Wizard. Would it be best to stat Druid off as fighter or just go Druid all the way?


Also, Charisma actually means something now right? Caster based classes need charisma to have powerful spells? Wow, this is alot to take in. Even more so then BG2. Thank god I have you guys. Especially Merceror who is always willing to help and has so much knowledge.

 

Yep, this would work. This was my original thought, and this allows you to get weapon specialization.

It's entirely up to you, and how you want to build the druid. If there's a compelling reason to add a fighter level (e.g. you want to use a martial weapon and don't want to spend a feat for it) you should be okay. With 2 clerics in the group, you should be fine with the slightly slower spell progress with the druid.

Regarding clerics, good clerics or neutral clerics can spontaneously cast cure spells. This is awesome, because you don't have to memorize any cure spells. If you want to cast a cure spell, simply shift-click any spell in your memorized list, and it will convert to a cure spell of the appropriate level. This does NOT work for heal spells, which are a lot more powerful and are obtained at higher levels.

Evil clerics spontaneously cast inflict spells (damage spells) which are decidedly less useful.

It depends. Wizards don't rely on charisma to cast spells, they rely on int.

Sorcerers rely on CHA, as do bards. You want to have at least one high CHA character in your party to serve as your diplomat, with at least 1 available skill point per level to boost the diplomacy skill (if you can also boost bluff and intimidate, so much the better).

 

I like monks. Monks are good at stuff. So are Druids. Then again, I've just finished a bottle of red wine that I started so I dunno

 

As always thank you sir. They should have the community vote on the most helpful poster. I just feel like you have taken so much time helping me understand the ins and outs of DnD that I should reward you somehow.



Anway, what about Wizards? My reading seems to suggest Sorcerers are better. Any reason to bring a wizard along for the ride?


I think I am ready to give it a go. Just one last thing, should my Spellsword be a Fighter/Sorceror or a Fighter/Wizard? Do you even need a wizard?

 

You're too kind Heisenberg, though I'm not sure I'm doing anything more than a lot of others. It's not everyday that an Infinity Explorer newbie comes around and shows the level of enthusiasm you have. I think that a lot of us are chomping at the bit to share our many, many years of knowledge and help you on your way. I very much appreciate the sentiment, though.

I think I've admonished you a few times too... so I haven't been "all" helpful.


Personally, I think it's a good idea to have a wizard and a sorcerer. Wizards have a great variety of spells they can cast. Sorcerers have a few key spells they can cast, over and over again. With both, you have variety and quantity, and you really can't ever have too many nukes on hand. A sorcerer/fighter could work, but I don't recommend it. Sorcerers gain spell levels 1 level later than wizards, so if you're going to multiclass, you'll really be behind the curve. With your smaller spell selection, your character will be rather limited as a caster.

I think the multiclass approach works better with a wizard personally.

@Silvery
ROFLMAO at your post!!

 

This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but a cleric of Lathander or Talos can both fight well and get high level wizard damage spells from their domains. An effective fighter/mage in 3rd edition requires the use of prestige classes, and the spellsword class can be a monster if used correctly, but sadly it's not possible in IWD2. If you ever get NWN2 I can help you out though

 

There are several key differences between IWD2 and BG2.

1) No HLAs, and classes now automatically gain or are able to gain abilities which were originally exclusively fighter-specific in BG2. This means that non-casting warriors in IWD2 will never be anywhere near as powerful as high level caster types.
2) Bards and especially Clerics (who are now able to use most weapons) are significantly more powerful in IWD2 because of number 1.
3) Rogues are significantly less powerful and in IWD2, so ideally you'll want to multiclass one.
4) Scrolls are much rarer in IWD2, which is why you'll only want to bring only one or two wizards. Incidentally, a rogue/wizard multiclass would work well but not as a spellsword.

A fighter 4/wizard is a decent spellsword, so would a paladin 1-3/sorcerer. The druid should be a non-ECL race and should remain single class. The shapeshift forms are situational - you use those to help you take maximum advantage of a situation (like relying on their immunities). For everything else, you use spells - although druids share the same chance to hit and number of attacks as bards and clerics they still suffer from not being able to use weapons against their ethos, which cripples their viability as a fighter long-term. Early game, though, they could easily outdamage fighters anyway so there's really no need to multiclass one.

 

Even if you were setting me straight you were still helping me. Don't get me wrong the whole community is great. I am so used to everyone on the net being dicks and such. I just appreciate you going the extra mile is all and always having the most clear, relevant and informative.



How does armor factor in to this game? If I go fighter 4 levels and X Sorcerer what type of armor should I expect to be wearing?

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I will keep that in mind thanks. Could someone tell me what stats I should start with and maybe starting skills and feats? Just to get me going.


I figure I need a high STR, IQ, Dex and Con right? What about Wisdom do I have only one dump stat? Would it be better to just go with a Cleric?



If I went with a Cleric of Talos could I still dual wield and be as good at melee combat? Alright, just tell me this. What weapon should I use? I was going to go Short Swords with Fighter4/Sorcerer X but now I am unsure.

 

For a Cleric you would want high wisdom and not intelligence.

Compared to a fighter 4/ wizard x? You would be better. Higher hp, better combat buffing spells, and much higher attack bonus.

 

Thanks Dame! You really saved me with that idea. What weapon is best to use though? Short Swords? Axes? I think my other Cleric of Morningstar or something is going to use Axes though... doh and race? Human?

 

I haven't gotten very far into the game, so unfortunately I can't help you with weapons. As for race, unless you want them to turn undead and thus have high charisma, I find half-orc to be a good choice for the strength bonus. Clerics of Talos has a ton of wizard damage spells at almost every spell level, all electricity so you will want the scion of storms feat. Lathanderites have primarily fire spells so you will want the fire-based feat. Don't forget to take spellcraft as a skill to get those. They may not have as many nuking spells as a wizard will have, but they will be just as powerful plus they will fight a lot better.