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Nurse on receiving end of prank commits suicide

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Beren, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I'm not a fan of telephone pranks or practical jokes in general, as things can get out of hand far too quickly. However, a suicide is not a foreseeable consequence of a prank call, so I don't think the guys who made the call should be unreasonably vilified.
     
  3. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I agree, I'm hearing and reading about this everywhere I turn but it's simply unfathomable to me how convinced some people are that they should have known that she could have killed herself over a silly prank phone call. I'm listening to far worse prank calls on the radio stations here and nobody's ever hurt, let alone killed themselves over one.

    The nurse's mental balance was likely very unstable to begin with that something like this could have driven her to commit suicide a day later. I just can't take seriously anyone blaming the DJs to any real degree.

    The fact that the media are all over this like a pack of rabid dogs is, quite frankly, disgusting. Why is this even news? I'm sure thousands of people are killed or kill themselves daily over what would appear to us to be banalities. Why don't they each get two weeks of world-wide media attention? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That is the one of the first things that sprang to my mind. I find it inconceivable that any well adjusted married woman with two teenage children would get fooled by a prank call at work, and subsequently kill herself because of it. Perhaps the prank call was the last straw, but even if that's what pushed her over the edge, there had to be other factors at work here. She didn't kill herself because of the prank call. She killed herself over a list of factors, the last of which may well have been the prank call.

    On the list of possible fallout that could have been reasonably anticipated from the prank call, I don't think anyone would list suicide as a foreseeable event. Embarrassed? Sure. Enough to kill yourself? No way. And I don't blame the DJs at all. They were playing a joke.
     
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't understand it at all. From what I gather, she didn't do anything but forward the call to the nurse's station where Kate was. That's hardly even embarrassing... :confused:
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    I guess the DJs (who are from Australia I believe) were using silly accents and made a point of dwelling on the notion that the nurse should have easily caught on to that.

    I'm kind of on the fence about it. I mean, I agree with Beren that it was tasteless, but I also agree that it's kind of foolish to think the DJs were fundamentally reckless for failing to consider that their target might commit suicide. If that's the standard, then all prank calls should be similarly regarded.

    However, I disagree a bit about the certainty of mitigating factors in the nurse's life, unless you want to consider depression a mitigating factor, and if so a great many people are similarly at risk. They are 'normal' people in that they function day to day; they're just much closer to the edge on a nearly constant basis than the majority of people out there. Public humiliation and major social rejection can be very compelling forces in people's lives.

    Like so many other things, I suspect it's simply a problem with no real solution. People should not be forced to tread delicately in all forms of social interaction for fear of harming others, and yet I think it's a distinctly sad reality that at-risk persons like this nurse are out there, and that many of them are never too far from pulling the plug.

    (Note that I don't know that this lady was clinically depressed. I'm just assuming something was at play here that affected her judgement in a way that I think we all probably agree was unreasonable ... for a healthy person.)
     
  7. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I think she was the nurse that answered the questions.

    I agree that the woman most likely had other issues but I don't mind the DJ's were fired. People should be held accountable for their actions ... even if the result was unforeseen.

    I'm certain many of the teens who engage in cyberbullying believe it to only be "a joke." That does not lessen the severity.
     
  8. Ineth

    Ineth Instigator Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Not only that, but what evidence is there that this is even what happened?

    Healthy people don't usually tend to commit suicide over a simple mistake or embarrassment. I think a lot of things must happen in a person's mind to get them to that point.

    And people's lives are complicated - a lot of factors from a lot of different directions can affect someone's state of mind, especially over longer periods of time, and many of them can go unnoticed even by friends and family.

    Journalists (especially of tabloid newspapers) like to disregard the complexities of life and jump straight to conclusions. Not something one should emulate I think.

    Maybe the nurse was indeed affected so deeply by the prank that it totally threw her off balance. Maybe it was the final straw that put her over the edge after already being suicidal. Maybe the prank had nothing whatsoever to do with the suicide at all. Maybe it wasn't even a suicide (the police report uses the word "suspected").
    We just don't know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  9. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It could even be a counter-prank gone horribly wrong. I've been trying to find more detailed reports, anything that says more than "nurse dies because of prank phone call - we know who did it, we know the details of the prank and we know that the result has everyone devastated" but so far nothing. I find this unusual.

    I fail to see how a supposedly healthy mother would commit suicide over a prank. Last straw, probably.
     
  10. Silvery

    Silvery I won't pretend to be your friend coz I'm just not ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Or the queen had here killed and it's a cover up ;)
     
  11. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That part could be easily explained by her family not releasing much information to the media. They do retain their right of privacy. If all the press has to go on is the police report, then there's little else they can say about it.
     
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    According to this and other reports I've heard on the radio, she merely put the DJ's through to another nurse.
     
  13. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    IMO, this wasn't even remotely within a "reasonably foreseeable" standard. By the way, this thread shows up on the main page for me as "Nurse on receiving end of . . . " and I thought to myself, since when did the Boards convert to featuring porn?

    Just sayin'.

    :p
     
  14. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Just for the sake of argument, if I run somebody over with my car without meaning to, I'm still held accountable - and that's without any ill intent. While I doubt that the DJs hoped anyone would kill themselves as a result of their prank, I'd have to think that their actions in this matter would be inherently more risky - even potentially negligent or hazardous - than me driving to work.

    Doubtless that case will be made in the inevitable lawsuits that follow.

    "... did negligently fail to exert that degree of care, caution, diligence, and prudence as would be demonstrated by a reasonably prudent person under the same or similar circumstances ..."
     
  15. Tarrasque

    Tarrasque Whoever said Paladins had to be charismatic? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    However, if you're driving down the road, and someone jumps in front of your car, you're not responsible.

    The nurse was not responsible for the leak, not being blamed, disciplined, or criticised in any way. In fact she had done nothing wrong or against hospital policies.

    The fact she chose to kill her self, whilst exceedingly selfish and tragic for her family, was her decision.

    Choosing to vilify the radio presenters who also did nothing wrong and nothing different to what millions of other radio presenters have done, for the actions of a selfish individual is quite honestly vile.

    After all, Jonathan Ross made a prank call on his radio show, but there certainly wasn't death threats made against him...
     
  16. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Gaear - negligence (at least in the US) carries with it a requirement that the damages be reasonably foreseeable. I tend to doubt that a suicide would be considered a reasonably foreseeable result of a prank call.
     
    Gaear likes this.
  17. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I stand corrected BTA. Even more reason to believe she had significant problems before all this happened.

    I still agree with the DJ's being fired (or at least put on an extended leave of absense)....
     
  18. Shoshino

    Shoshino Irritant Veteran

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    I'll make more of a post on this when I get to my computer, only jumping in here to point out that the DJ's/radio station have infact broken the law, under the data protection act they obtained privileged, sensitive or confidential information by deception. most phone pranks are simply upsetting or annoying in this instance they have broken the law.
     
  19. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, apparently British prosecutors are now seriously looking at pressing charges. Is this for real? What happened to basic criminal law principles, like mens rea?

    Sure, I don't like what the DJs did. But invoking criminal law in an instance where the reasonable person in their place couldn't possibly have foreseen suicide (if you want to use a penal negligence based offence), much less they didn't have actual foresight of the possibility of suicide, is just plain wrong.

    Prosecutors shouldn't invoke their powers simply to satiate public desire for vindication. And besides, the DJs have faced a lot of villification as it is.
     
  20. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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