What is the Friendzone? Does it really even exist?

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lol there is no fork either

 

I'd say that technically that's not really refusing to enter the friendzone, but rather refusing to show friendzone-able qualities. If a girl actually tries to put you in the friendzone ("BTA, I think we should just be friends. It would mean so much to me, and you would be my best #1 non-sexual friend and we could have non-sexual sleepovers and later you could do the dishes and wash my underwear! Okay?") - something that requires a response such as refusal - your goose is already cooked. And the only response that will work in terms of refusing to enter is like Tal said - say your goodbyes. You just showed you were not FZ material before the maneuver occurred, BTA. Good job.

Was that a victory won by attrition, or was there a moment when you told her "enough of this crap?"

If that were a same-sex scenario, I can see how it would be potentially more confusing and more of a betrayal, as with opposite sex (guys especially) you pretty much know what they're after going in.

I think there's more to it than simply being wrong all the time. People seem to so often deliberately send mixed signals, so it may not be that you're always wrong (our senses have probably evolved to detect those signs since the dawn of mankind after all, as the survival of the species is dependent on that skill), but that the sender is effing with you. Pretending that you never receive any signals is certainly safe, but you'll also never get any action that way.

I think they call that 'love.' Love is supposed to be a whatever-it-takes proposition, so in order to stop running headlong into the wall you have to realize and accept that the notion of it is dead. That's certainly a tough pill to swallow both emotionally and I think biologically due to our genetic programming, hence the difficulty. It's much easier for observers to say "why is he doing that" than for the afflicted to really grasp it.

Heh, for once I agree in principal with pretty much everything joa said.

 

I my chase it was a victory by admitting a crushing defeat and moving on and away.
With my balls bruised but not destroyed.

 

I have friends who are men, lesbians and bisexuals with no expectations on either side to enter a sexual/romantic relationship. Likewise my partner and other men I know have friends with women, gays and bisexuals with no expectation or desire to enter into a sexual/romantic relationship. The notion that straight men look at women only with an eye of entering a romantic relationship is complete nonsense - not denying some men are that completely shallow, just as some women are. Hardly makes it the norm and hardly makes it less idiotic to completely discount a whole gender as potentially genuine friends because of their genitals and your own preconceived notions of what that entails.

 

Ah 8people, the very common delusion of a woman. It is an illusion. True as I stated earlier some very special people can be real friends with people of the group they are sexually attracted to but they are the exception, not the rule. you may be one of those. Or it is simply just that you are in a stable long term relationship and most men "desexualize" women like that and can actually see them as real human beings. But if you are honest with yourself, how many close real friends do you have of the opposite gender? I have plenty of female acquaintances several who even I think consider me a friend but most are in a relationship and of those that aren't I either want to screw them but lack the guts to try or I for some reason find them very unattractive. I have known many women who have claimed they have so many male friends and the few times I have known those male friends I have also known that they don't really consider her as a real close friend and that they either would bone her if given the chance or find her unattractive.

Now I have a few female actual friends, I would say three actually and two of them I have nursed a simmering infatuation with for years and one I don't find very sexually attractive but given the right circumstances I am sure we could make something happen but I have never really thought any of them were worth pursuing for one reason or another but I am attracted to them so I haven't tried and we generally just hang out as part of a bigger group.

 

Most of my friends are male. I grew up with brothers so I just understand some aspects of male thinking better than I understand some aspects of other women thinking. I get the feeling that most of my straight male friends are sexually attracted to me but I'm not attracted to all of them. I do have a few male friends who are in committed relationships and they seem to be the most like friends without ulterior motives.

 

If action is what you're looking for, then I suppose you're right. I was always looking for the one - someone I could spend the rest of my life with. I have never been interested in just getting some action, as you put it.

Maybe Dice is on to something. I grew up being very close to my older sister, which is probably why I have an easier time being just friends with women - I normally see women as non-sexual entities. At least the way joa describes it is alien to me. Never understood guys like that, though I know most guys actually are like that.

That twice blinded, I suppose Once through love and once because we all have a blind spot where it concerns ourselves. Though I still think that person 1 is himself to blame for ending up in that situation. At least from the reactions here, it's clear that not everyone will allow themselves to end up in a friendzone, so at least they are not the type to be blinded by love.

And I don't believe love is a whatever-it-takes proposition. I've known cases where it apparently worked out that way, but I think that generally whatever-it-takes only works in fiction. For me at least it would be too much of a hassle and not worth the energy expenditure.

 

Clearly I am not going to the right offices, bars, bedrooms, or webs because I have NEVER heard of this term before. But it hardly sounds like anything new.

 

Cheekiness aside, what I really mean is interaction, of any meaningful kind. In other words, if a woman comes up to you and bats her eyelashes and plays with her hair and smiles and says "maybe we can get dinner sometime," and you (refusing to see any signals) reply "yeah, I'll go pick it up if you pay for it and I'll leave yours on your desk," you're not likely to get much further interaction with that person at all.

Easier said than done. Once you yourself become a fool for love, you'll act just as stupid as everyone else does sooner or later.

Again, once you get bitten you'll see that whole outlook go right out the window. Humorously (and mildly tragically, as is usually the case), I've seen the steeliest robots - hyper rational logic type guys in various professional scientific or engineering fields, for example - turn into smitten balls of clay with goofy faraway looks on their faces at the hands and wiles of a woman, only to crash and burn more often than not. You will fall too. Everyone does at least once. And when that happens, you'll scramble around just like everyone else trying to salvage your future, possibly even (gasp!) at the risk of entering the dreaded FZ!

Harbs, I am ... somehow not surprised.

It's really like joa says. There's the way it ought to be, and then there's the way it is. The ideal is almost never the norm.

 

Most of my close friends are actually male - They're friendships based on interests and mutual respect. This has been the case even when I've been single - it also includes a friend who I did date for a while, but it became evident it was just falling back into a friendship (which is still in place). Some relationships simply work better as friends instead of partners.

I'm not denying there are the shallow ones who feign pursuit or friendship simply to try their luck - I certainly don't consider these people good friends, most barely friends and each time I have to rebuff them it simply degrades my opinion of them further

Most of these friendship groups I've been adopted in I've always just been "one of the guys" some ave stated they've found me attractive but that doesn't mean they desire me or are only friends to eventually share a bed with me.

There are also people who put friendships above sexual relationships and don't want to risk losing a friend with similar interests or simply don't view everyone of the opposite sex as a potential notch on the bedpost.

Many of my hobbies and interests *are* generally considered masculine, my social encounters largely feature more men than women - some of the other women capitalise on that and use their "assets" to advantage to get attention but that's just as bad as the men who fall into the trap of being shoved into a "friend zone" I approach others as a person and treat them as a person, I expect the same curtsey in return and retain contact with the others that return that respect.

Perhaps I am simply more selective. (I also generally don't care when others abandon a friendship with me - their loss )

 

It seems you are suggesting that the only meaningful interaction is to enter a romantic relationship? Anyway, if I'm not interested in the woman I may rebuff her like you suggest. It seems dishonest to play along and get involved if I'm not actually interested. I know myself and I would get tired of the spiel within a few months anyway and I don't want to hurt the other's feelings.

I have fallen in love before, and with varied results. The point is, I didn't end up in the friendzone because I recognise a dead end when I see one and don't deny its existence. I also don't assume that the woman might change her opinion later.

The other point is that there's more than two possible states for relations with a woman - those being either one of disinterest or one of possible bedpartner. Where would you put sisters and women in who are in a relationship already otherwise? (I'm hoping at least you don't put them in the category of possible bedpartners.)

 

Ditto - never heard of it.

I agree with this. I haven't been friends with a female since.... hell probably high school. I work in an office, and I'm certainly on good terms with a lot of the female employees. But they aren't REALLY friends. We may joke around in the office, and go to lunch on occassion, but it's not like we hang out on weekends or anything like that.

 

Here's my standard of friendship - Have you ever considered going out with someone for a dinner/beer/ball game/whatever? If we're talking about co-workers, it would have be outside a work-related event. If you could answer yes, assuming they feel the same way, you're friends. There's very few people at work who would qualify as that for me, and none of them are women.

 

That would be pretty close to my definition as well, and by my definition I have no friends. The last person who I'd have called a friend was more than five years back and since I got a new job and moved away the contact withered away. She was a woman, though.

 

I'm not suggesting a spiel or playing along with anything. Having interactions with people is how you learn whether you like them or not. You're saying that you automatically nullify any signals from women when you receive them. If you do that with the flirting girl and eat your lunch is seclusion, you'll never know whether she was The One or not.

If you can say that with sincerity (reacting properly and thinking clearly in a love crisis), then you have either been wrecked enough times to know the ropes and avoid the pitfalls, or you haven't fallen very hard. It's the latter who are in most danger of getting hurt severely because they are blind to the dangers. "I know better, I would never do that," etc., etc. Trust me, when your turn comes, that won't mean a thing. I really hope that you're the badass veteran, but you kind of don't sound like it.

No, I don't consider siblings possible bed partners. The greater likelihood among taken persons, if you have significant levels of interaction with them, is that they are either people you would like to sleep with but you don't try due to having some sense of decency and decorum, or they are really not friends. Are there any women in your life who you find uniformly unattractive but who you are good friends with - people you would reach out to in need, or who you would make yourself available to when they are in need? In significant ways, not just with a quick "you'll be fine, catch ya later." And no, I'm not talking about your mom.

~

To clarify, I'm not really suggesting that every person out there is consciously thinking "yeah I want to bang that girl, but if I can't, forget her" (though they do exist, to be sure). But we almost surely operate on instincts more than we care to let on, and our instincts are always assessing potential mates. It's basically our reason for existence on the genetic level, and you don't just turn that off. That's why a friendzoned guy tends to be such a pitiable creature: he's not going to mate with his 'friend,' though he wants to, desperately, but instead he's playing the role of middle-of-the-pack disposable support character and everybody can see it. If we were still cavemen, that guy would be compelled to go try to sow his seed somewhere else or die trying. He wouldn't hang around gathering fruits and nuts to place at the feet of the queen.

 

I think actually you demonstrate something very interesting here Eight. That is the female point of view, and exactly what the thread is about. Just because a man might have a sexual interest in his female "friend" doesn't mean that he will tell her about it.

Women can have male friends that they have no sexual interest in. From most of the input here, which is primarily male, you can understand how men actually feel. Woman and men are psychologically, physically, and chemically different.

 

For me it is really simple. Seeing as I am rather picky in what kind of people I could consider real friends and the traits I look for in that is even more rarer among women than among men the few women I meet that do interest me enough for me to want to be friends with will also check all the boxes for me risking falling in love with them unless they for some reason are grossly unattractive.

Basically any woman good enough to be friend material is good enough to be girlfriend material, heck I would even say my standards for friends tend to be higher than that for girlfriends at least in the short term. This means that there is a very small selection of women I find attractive in more than a purely sexual way and seeing as I can never pursue a woman I don't respect no matter how hot she is there aren't that many women left for me. Especially if you consider that I am probably no prize in the looks department and is generally a quite difficult person when you actually get to know me.

For me personally I can't be friends with a woman because any woman I find interesting enough to want to be friends with I will find attractive enough that I will want more.

 

Like Aldeth and Joacquin, I can safely say that I have no female friends.