Immigration Reform Bill

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*meh* Not exactly what I had in mind, considering under the proposed plan it would take a freaking DECADE to actually become a citizen.

Here are the details of the plan.

Of note in the second bullet point:

I mean, really? 10 years - is that all? In order to register for the program in the first place, you also have to pay back taxes on income that you've earned while working in the US. Of course, given that these people are largely undocumented, good luck in determining how much money they've earned - most of them are paid under the table and aren't officially on the books.

I also got a chuckle out of this part of the bill:

Since I'm assuming you don't actually know about the ones that you don't catch, how is it possible to know if you catching 90% of them? Then they follow that gem up with this:

So you can't even begin the 10-year process until AFTER this happens, and again, I don't know how you can tell how many you aren't catching.

So to recap... Prove you've paid back taxes on all the income you've earned since you've been here and a $500 fine on top of that. Then you can apply for a provisional status, if the government decides that the strategies in place are catching 90% of the people trying to cross the border. Then, 10 years later, if you're still working and living in the US, know the English language, pay a $1000 fine, and the backlog of immigrants applying through the standard channels has been cleared (and given there are more applicants than allowed entrants every year this seems impossible) then you might be able to become a citizen.

Look, I'm a realist. You can't make this process easy. If you did, there would be no disincentive to people trying to illegally cross the border. You need to make the process hard to make people want to go through the standard immigration channels that are already in place. But this process is so long and so convoluted, I'm left to wonder in ANYONE will actually become a citizen as a result of this program.

 

Regarding the back taxes thing, do they somehow get 'forgiveness' for other penalties that would apply to regular citizens who don't file tax returns? I think normally there are huge fines and interest associated with that, if not criminal prosecution, which would sort of obviously be problematic for someone seeking citizenship or this registered provisional thing. If not, it seems like a raw deal for honest tax payers. If you are in the country illegally, they'll wave one fee as long as you pay another fee, whereas if I make an error in my return they'll land on me with both feet and a sledgehammer.

 

That's another part I don't get. If you were working and getting paid under the table, then there is no record of any income. If you were able to work for someone who gave you an actual paycheck, then chances are taxes were already taken out. (Things like SS and Medicare are deducted automatically from pay.) As most people get a return and don't owe more in taxes, if anything they probably overpaid taxes. So I would think you have two groups. Group A is under the table pay, and there's no record of any income to begin with and Group B are people that are likely already paid up.

 

Maybe it's on the honor system like with taxes for (some) online products, where your state gravely asks "Did you buy anything online and not pay tax? You know you have to tell us!"

Sounds like they'll be delivering a lot of "Well oKAY then ...!" responses to the predictable chorus of nos.

 

In my humble opinion, people who have entered a country without going through the proper entry procedures are criminals. You can call them illegal immigrants, undocumented workers, unregistered migrants, cheap labor, or whatever else you want, but the fact is that they are criminals. They should be treated as such, and I don’t care how long they have been in country or what their situation was like back home. They should be sent back with a swift kick in the <donkey> and if they end up dead in their country of birth, well, too bad. I can see sneaking in and then going to the government and begging for asylum, but sneaking in and staying for 20 years? Give me a break. Such dishonesty is inexcusable.

The procedure to become a citizen SHOULD be a difficult one. The message should be this:

This could apply to any Western Democracy, which is why I didn't name the receiving country.

 

Well there is that whole... nation in a state of war right on your doorstep.

Personally, if I lived in a nation where the cartels were at war with not just the police, but the God damned army and the state itself, I'd take myself and my family out of there as fast as I could. The longer it goes on, the more people will flee for their lives to the North, it being the fastest/shortest route out.

 

Illegal immigration is not a crime. Immigration is a civil matter, which means it’s ruled by civil law, not criminal law. Immigration cases are heard in front of an administrative law judge, not a criminal judge. As such, illegal immigrants are not criminals. They are, however, in the country without the proper paperwork.

 

It largely doesn't matter anyway, as some of the requirements - including when the 10-year probationary period begins - are controlled by factors outside of their control. Look, maybe I'm wrong, and in the year 2023, maybe there will be millions of people currently in the nation illegally that will become citizens. However, I find it far more plausible that since 10 years is such a long time, most people won't bother and will just continue doing what they're doing. Many will fear deportation just for letting the government know they're here in the first place.

 

One thing missing in all this is the people who employ these illegal immigrants. They pay them ridiculously low wages, thus simultaneously taking advantage of the illegal, taking a job away from a citizen, and breaking the law by paying under minimum wage. These employers should be punished harshly. It's not just the immigrants who need to be reminded that Western Democracies are founded on the rule of law.

 

Ten year is very generous, I'd consider granting them citizenship, but with the stipulation that they can never vote. If the liberals really care about improving the lives of illegal immigrants, they'll support the bill. If they only care about creating a voting base, they'll oppose it. It would really show their true colors.

 

Citizenship means nothing if it is tiered. The only exception is if it was obtained fraudulently.

 

Citizens who commit crimes are often barred from voting, why should this be any different?

 

As already posted by Drew, illegal immigration is not a crime.

Why should they be barred from voting. All of our forefathers were immigrants at some time or another that had to apply for citizenship. They weren't barred from voting after being accepted. Why should anyone else?

 

Exactly - I'm a 2nd generation American, and my grandparents, while not born here, were able to vote.

 

I'm clearly not the go-to guy for law interpretation, but 8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien seems to state that illegal entry is a crime:

Source: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

 

Illegal entry can be, but it is only a misdemeanor. Since very few if any people on this board and in this country can honestly state that they have never committed a misdemeanor (moving violations and jaywalking are both misdemeanors), calling illegal immigrants 'criminals' would essentially mean painting the vast majority of our country with that brush. Needless to say, that really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

While the numbers are hard to come by, most estimates state that roughly half of our illegal immigrants entered the country illegally. The rest entered legally and simply didn't leave. Unlike illegal entry, however, staying in the country illegally is not a crime.

 

In most states moving violations aren't misdemeanors - they are even lower on the list - summary offenses.