Another woman murderer gets away with a light sentence

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"branding them insane." This is the problem we "brand" people as insane instead of treating it as the illness it is. I am a diabetic and there was a time when people actually "branded" diabetics. Alcoholism is now recognized as a disease. We need to educate people both the mentally ill and their friends and family. Is depression even legally defined as insanity? There are many degrees of depression. When our problems overwhelm us to the point we can no longer deal with them we need to be willing to get help and not just medical treatment.

I agree that we need to move with caution and the first step in my opinion is to stop "branding" those with mental or emotional problems. I went to therapy for several years to learn how to deal with some problems I was having. I was not diagnosed as mentally ill or insane, I was not about to go out and kill someone or even throw rocks at anyone but I did need help. There is no shame in admitting that you need help. There is no shame in asking for help. The shame lies with those who refuse to help you.

 

I agree with LKD. Temporary insanity seems to only be a condition that the courts recognize with women. In my neck of the woods we recently had a case where an 18 year old recent high school graduate was dumped by his girlfriend as they were both going to different colleges and she was moving on. Well of course he became depressed and did everything he could to win or back, and when it didn't work he ended up killing her. At the age of 20 he was found guilty and sentenced to life in jail with no possibility of parole.

This case has spurred a lot of local conversation. My son is 17 and therefore a lot of our peers have sons of similar age and everyone is like "There but for the grace of God..." We all try our best to raise our sons and daughters, and I truly believe in a calm and normal situation they would all do the "right thing", but when the emotions and hormones are running like they do with older teenagers who knows what could happen.

In this case the boyfriend is clearly guilty and deserves to go to prison, but the discussion has been is the sentence fair. On one hand, he killed someone and the girlfriend isn't coming back. Her life is over so should his life be over. Then on the other hand even though he was over 18 people can't help but think that 18 year olds nowadays may physically look like 25 year olds, but have the maturity of much younger people (not a universal truth).

To bring this back on topic, it is universally accepted if the roles had been reversed the jury/courts would have bent over backwards to find a way not to impose such a harsh sentence on such a sweet and innocent looking girl as opposed to a huge football player.

 

It does seem that women do get preferential treatment in cases such as that. Part of the reason is simple prejudice in their favor and part is that it is a fact that women do have at least in some cases extreme mood swings because of the menstrual period. I think that maybe we have here a combination of a left over residue of "girls are sugar and spice and every nice..." and the emphasis of the Feminist movement on since woman suffered negative prejudice in the past we have to fight harder to be treated as equal. What happens is the pendulum swings the other way in favor of the women. I rather hesitantly offer that because my own personal opinion enters in rather than actual facts.

 

Harsher punishments lead to less but more violent crime.
In China, robbing a jewelry store is such a big crime in itself, that you risk death penalty. So witnesses are killed for fear of capture. Is it good or bad? The streets here are very safe at night. There is barely no crime at all, but the exceptions make for gruesome national news stories. Children can walk home alone. But when crime does happen, the victims end up killed. If the focus is on allowing victims to survive crime, then death penalty works badly. There's also very little scope and scale, when anything but minor crime quickly leads to life imprisonment or death, so that is also unfair.

On the other hand, when my ex-wife had systematically emptied my savings and left me for a millionaire, the thought of killing her in Holland seemed to be very appealing at the time. If I had done so quickly, I could've claimed to be overwhelmed by emotion. Probably would've been free again in 6 years. Fortunately I didn't have it in me, but the low punisment for crime makes it disturbingly appealing. If we had been living in China though, things would have been quite different...

I agree that punishment should be consistent, and gender prejudices should not play a role in this. If they do, then that's simply unjust. But as to which level of punishment is fitting: less or more? I'm quite undecided.

 

How about a woman teacher getting a light sentence for having sex with one of her students. You can't tell me that if a male teaching was having sex with a 15-year old girl that he would have received life time probation, but no jail time.

Story

 

Perhaps, but even that is more than he would have deserved. Rather than calling her punishment too harsh, I'd prefer to call the punishment that a man would get too lenient. Consensual sex with a willing partner who is old enough for sexual activity is hardly a heinous crime in my book. It seems foolish that we would waste taxpayer money imprisoning such people. Hell, I'd argue probation is pushing it, considering the cost. To take it is a step further, it is ridiculous that such a person would be labeled a 'sex offender.'

These types of offenses should not be lumped in with real child molestation, sexual assault, and rape.

 

Male teachers who have sex with students are "evil and depraved.". Female teachers who have sex with students are "under the influence of bad medication." No double standard here, folks!

 

I respectfully disagree with some of what you said. I agree that it's different from child molestation, but think it could be on the same level as sexual assault and rape, depending on the circumstances. As a teacher, I can tell you that there is a huge difference between having sex with a consenting adult who is NOT a student and one who is. Even at the college or grad school level, where the students usually ARE legal adults, it's wrong. Because how do you define "consensual"? A teacher comes on to a student: he may wonder if his grade will plummet if he doesn't respond willingly. It doesn't look like coercion on the outside, so it can't be officially called "rape," but the power dynamic is such that it might feel like rape to the student. And that's not right.

That said, it does depend on the circumstances. Where I grew up, there was a large Hmong population. In Hmong culture, people often marry well below the age of 18. There was a huge problem of new Hmong husbands being charged with statutory rape due to the age of their wives, when they themselves weren't much older. In that case, the law is completely stupid. I can see potential similarities in a teacher/student case if the student is the one pursuing the relationship and the teacher is trying to avoid it. In that case, I could see a lower sentence than if the teacher was pursuing the student. But I still think that there should be some consequences for the teacher, since they should know better than to get involved with a student.

Finally, this kind of double standard hurts women, too. Not in the immediate here-and-now, but it perpetuates the stereotype that women are "weak" and "can't help themselves," and thus are less capable of making their own decisions and standing by them, while men are seen as strong and able to choose their actions.

On a completely random note: I have double standards. I hold myself to much higher standards than I hold others.

 

Whoa ... whoa ... whoa ... now this is a classic example of why a little truth in a statement can make the whole argument sound reasonable (or in this case absurd as was the intent). Boys ARE horn-dogs who would look at this as manna from heaven. Don't know about the girl part though ... never could figure them out....

 

Well, yeah, and as T2 points out, that's normally true. But reverse the sexes and you get a completely different punishment.

Wow. Thanks for bringing back the bad memories. I distinctly remember when I was a grad student and taught chemistry lab to freshman and sophomore students. One particular student in my organic chemistry lab was interested in me - and good god did I want her - but you just can't. (Full disclosure - she was 20 and I was 24, so it wasn't like I was a ton older than her - it wouldn't have been icky at all.) It doubles as an instance in my life where I showed extremely high moral character, and simultenously was one of the saddest realizations of my life.

Even after she wasn't a student of mine anymore, I still didn't feel right about it, just because of the perception that it would of caused... "Gee, wasn't he you're chem instructor last month?" I went out on ONE date with her that summer after the class was over, and it just felt like I shouldn't be doing it. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH! I still get mad about it. Why did she have to be my student? I would have been all over that!

 

This whole topic makes me think of "That's My Boy". If teacher's that looked like that came on to me at that age it would of been HEAVEN! You can call it whatever you want, the teacher can have all the different reasosns she wants, but that teenage boy only has one thing on his mind. WOW!

 

I have dated former students and as Aldeth said it never really felt right. They also seemed to expect something from me that I couldn't give and they could never understand that the person I am in the classroom is not the person I really am and I am quite sure that they fell in love in the "classroom" version of me (he is way cooler, funnier and a ton more charming and also absolutely exhausting to be which is why I don't really do much except work and hang out in front of the computer and then you don't meet many women outside of work). I would also like to note that all of the ladies in question have been well above 20.

Talking to older people around me it seems quite common for girls/women to pursue their teachers. Have one older co-worker (64 years old) who practically tries to set me up with one student every semester and she sees no problem with me hooking up with girls as young as 16 which makes me rather uncomfortable. I can say though that a man without scruples and moral could abuse the position something fierce and I am quite sure several do.