Preempting the storm: RIP Margaret Thatcher

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I know nothing about economics, but I'd have to agree with Shoshino on the principal. As far as I can tell, many of you here are actually saying something to the effect that economics are ... unknowable? I almost bought that for a moment before my BS detector went off.

I have no doubt that it's very complicated, but to put the subject so squarely in the voodoo category is itself about as paranoid and irrational as you would have us believe the subject is itself. Merriam-Webster calls economics a science - "a social science concerned chiefly with description and analysis of the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services."

If anyone is going to discuss this with authority, you should probably start listing your credentials. Shoshino has at least stated he studied economics. What are the qualifications for the rest of you? Absent anything compelling, I'm inclined to write off some of these statements as the paranoid ramblings of the generally uninformed.

 

He dares question economic law? Blasphemy!

I've seen many debates by economists. They sport charts and graphs, and parrot them all day long. But when you ask about things like resource limits to cyclical consumption, consumer brand loyalty, monopoly positions, anything that might call their perfect little picture of reality into question, there is no adequate response.

Gaear quotes a dictionary and trusts in credentials? It's a decent strategy when you don't know what you're dealing with. I'm no expert, so feel free to dismiss anything I say.

You know that credentials are fairly easily bought anywhere in the world, right? Living in China, I learned how a certificate (education diploma) proves that:
1) You're from a rich family who could pay for education
2) You got what your family paid for, while you watched TV, went out, played games and did anything but study during university.
3) You expect a high salary, and don't want to work hard for it. Since your family has good guanxi/relationships, why should you need to?
4) Your education certificate allows you to work in fields where people without them can't.

In the county (where police don't enforce government regulations strictly), my wife owns a small English school, and has 2 employees without any certifications. They work hard and are worth their salary. In the city, I work in a larger school with certified teaching assistants. They get higher salaries, but they're not experienced or hardworking.

That's how certificates work. Economic certifications are the pinnacle of this corruption. It doesn't take any skill to make a lot of money into even more money - the system is rigged. Economists don't know anything about anything, but they sure are qualified.

 

So, you're now trying to argue that education certificates mean nothing, because some countries have a corrupt system?

gladly, because you seem to know nothing about economics.

 

The problem with economic theory is that there usually is another theory that states the complete opposites. The two most influential schools of macroeconomics (which is what we are mostly talking about here) are the supplyside economics and demandside economics. Essentially they are opposites of each other and neither has been debunked or discredited as of yet and remain as forces that shape policy today. Does not mean it's all BS but it does put bias in a lot of economic research which can be a bit problematic.

That's the simplified picture. As for my credentials I don't find them overly relevant but I already mentioned them in this thread. Not having a degree in economics disqualifies no one from discussing it. The economy is too important to be left in the hands of economists alone.

 

All countries have corruption, believe it or not. Economics is the pinnacle, because your academic achievements are not what matter - if you're rich enough, then you're a 'guru'. See, they even have religious names for it.

Then by all means, trust in the economic high priest's prophecies.
No need for you to even be on internet - just believe whatever the qualified guys in suits say on TV.

 

What? People on the interweb who state their credentials as if that actually matters? Laughably uniformed nitwits stepping back and deferring to the opinions of those who have put more than 30 seconds into thinking about the topic at hand?

Are you insane? This entire system will come down!

 

For every sermon that interprets scriptures one way, there will be another one saying the exact opposite. It's hard to determine what the will of the Invisible Hand is. Best to just listen to what the high priest says on TV.

It's also why gurus shouldn't sound the alarm when they think a bank is failing: It will inevitably lead to a bankrun. They are out there to speak words of comfort, reinforcing the faith (=trust in the economy).
Nowadays, there are a swath of gurus who take pride in having predicted market failures. This is a troubling development for the economy. These prophets will usher in dark times.

 

Our entire financial system is completely reliant on trust. If the trust would completely disappear we would be totally screwed. We are not trading shiny bits metal any longer, nor are we trading pieces of paper a state has promised is worth a certain amount of shiny metal we are trading digital numbers on a screen. As long as we believe those numbers have value that is what they have. As soon as that belief wanes our economy will come crumbling down. It is vital that "high priests" reassures the masses whether you like it or not. I am finally starting to get some extra money I can't spend all on travels but I honestly hesitate to invest them or even save for my retirement because I seriously fear for our current financial system. I would not be surprised if there will be a complete meltdown and reboot in our lifetime.

 

It's kind of like some apartment blocks:

 

Holy dog nuts! Indeed my masters in biochemistry is from a Catholic University (technically a Jesuit University), as was the degree in biology. My concentration was in genetics, but I did get two full semesters of evolution along the way. Which, unless you plan on specializing in Evolution, is plenty enough for any biologist. But seeing as how you are actually teching it, it seems that you were capable of finding a practical application to your degree, even if it meant relocating to the other side of the globe.

Still don't get the economic arguments though. My value mean doesn't cost $16, and McDonalds still seems to have adequate staffing to provide the burgers to their customers.

I'll have to see if I can find the article again, but it was comparing modern times to the time when the Great Gatsby took place, as a large portion of that book focuses on the opulent lifestyles of the time. In the 1920s, the average company president of a Fortune 500 company (CEOs weren't really a named position in most companies back then, and there wasn't a fortune 500 list, but it's the equivalent of what a CEO in a Fortune 500 company would be today) earned an average of 30 times what the typical worker for that company made. Today, the average CEO earns 380 times what the typical worker makes.

This is what we're talking about when we say wage disparity and paying your fair share. No one is complaining about the lawyer making a 6-figure income, or a doctor making a quarter million. It's the super rich that are being cited. You can argue that a CEO is worth 30 times what the typical employee is worth, but 380 times?

 

OK, McDonald's:
--- Resource limitations to cyclical consumption: The rainforest is being deforested to provide the grazing lands for the beef in MacBurgers. Instead of branching out into a more diverse menu, the consumption is simply being geared towards the high-fat diet that Americans love. Food is a bad example of cyclical consumption, though. I'd prefer some sort of durable product as example, because many of those have built-in breakage, to guarantee that a replacement will be bought within a reasonable timeframe for the producer, instead of creating truly durable products. TVs 40-50 years ago didn't ever break. My grandma replaced her unbroken one only because she wanted widescreen & to play DVDs. Similar story with her old dialing-wheel phone.
--- Consumer Brand loyalty: KFC has gotten a better reputation than MacDonald's over the years, and whether this is due to better products is debatable. In Holland, you can take your date out to KFC no problem, but MacDonald's? That will be your last date! MacDonald's can advertise, lower their prices, offer similar foods to KFC, but it all doesn't matter. Some people will always shun MacDo. Even Burger King would be better than MacDonald's, but still not good enough to take your date to. So, how does this figure into supply/demand equations?
--- MacDonald's and monopoly positions... oh, where to start? Well, to keep it short: Local fastfood joints in the Netherlands can't compete against the low low prices that multinationals like MacDonald's offer. This isn't because MacDo has better infrastructure and supply sources, it's mainly because global concerns like this can funnel their international profits through low tax countries. In fact, Holland was recently discovered to be one of the countries where multinationals funneled on average 14% of their global profits, because the Dutch gov't is such a suck-up to big business. The tax can be as low as 0.3% in some cases. It has nothing to do with supply/demand, or even quality. This is why studying accountancy is more useful than economics.


As for your comments about my education and occupation: I already said that I did the study out of interest, with the knowledge that there might not be work available in the field. You can try to make it real personal, but that's just bad form.

 

Dude, it was intended as a compliment. You are putting your education - regardless of whether or not you did it out of interest - into use in your career. I assumed when you said you did it out of interest that you took the course of study without the intention of living in China. But seeing as how you ARE living in China, and you're able to get a higher paying job because of it, I kind of thought it should be viewed as a good thing. If I offended you, I sincerely apologize.

 

OK, my bad. I misunderstood the intention of your comments, so I apologize in turn.
And just to correct you: I'm teaching English now, not evolution. The Master's degree is a rank higher than Bachelors requirements of jobs in China, so I'm always suitable wherever I apply. I'm not working in the field of biology, but the degree is viewed very highly in China.

 

Awwww Coin and Aldeth squaring off a bit. It just had to be a misunderstanding.

BTW Coin, where abouts in China do you live? I know a few people who teach English there. A few mates teach in Shanghai (or, more accurately, just outside it, some place called Jiangsu - sp?), a guy in Qinhuangdao, a guy in Beijing and a few other people who went there, although not sure where! I also know a few guys who teach in Seoul, SK. I know it's a big ass place, but just wondered. They seem to be crying out for native English speakers over there. I've thought about it myself, though I've heard it doesn't pay too well :/.

 

Oh, so I misunderstood you too. You probably mentioned it otherwise, and I just didn't process it. When you said you had a masters in evolution and were teaching in China, I assumed that you were teaching evolution in China. Which was pretty silly of me, as I imagine you are much more comfortable teaching a scientific subject matter in a language in which you are fully fluent. Of course it makes more sense that living in China you would be teaching English, but for whatever reason I interpreted it as teaching evolution.

 

I live with my wife and baby boy Owen in Sichuan province, far from the coast, bordering on Tibet.
It's quite a wealthy province, and the food is exceptional. People are very petty-bourgeois, but I think it just appeals to Chinese desire to copy others and fit in. In big cities like Chengdu, you can meet other foreigners on the streets every day. I work in a smaller city called Meishan, and I never saw one here before, though my boss tells me there are around 30 others.

There's tons of jobs teaching children, and that's the kind of job I do now. But you can also find work teaching adults, but admittedly it doesn't pay as well (70% if you have a good degree). I do get bored of teaching children, because you need to adhere to the rather insulting stereotype of westerners;
- "More energy. Crazy like a black man!"
- "What?"
- "Eh.... Crazy like a negro!"
-

Can you imagine imposing stereotypes of Chinese to a Chinese teacher in America:
- "More shy. Cowardly like a Chinaman!"
- "My lawyer will be in touch soon."

Teaching adults is more interesting of course. I plan to make the change in the future, but for now there are bills to pay - buying a house isn't cheap.

If you know anybody interested in making the move, let them peruse the eChinacities website looking for jobs first. That will give you an impression of the salaries. Foreign teachers' salaries are very high compared to those of native employees, and can be a source of resentment and friction with colleagues, as you can expect much better treatment, rights and consideration. They tried imposing salary reduction on me for unsatisfactory lessons, but I simply said NO.

The salaries haven't risen over the years, but take into consideration:
- The Chinese Yuan is very strong, and this is likely to remain so. Salaries are comparable to what the low paying jobs in Europe earn.
- You pay next to nothing in taxes, and you might even find a boss willing to help you avoid paying entirely. In my case, I just needed bank accounts in my family members' names.
- Living expenses are very cheap. Rent might be significant in larger cities, but salaries are also higher there.
- If you're male, single, and like Chinese girls, you will be the Silverback you've always wanted to be.

Let me know if you have any interested people who could use a contact here. My wife speaks Chinese, which is tremendously useful in negotiations. And if anyone wants to come see the holy mountains of buddhism, the pandas, or any other of the attractions of Sichuan province, get in touch with me. Sichuan is quite touristy, but the tourism is mainly from Chinese nationals, so very few people speak English.

 

Coo, thanks mate. I heard you don't need any qualifications at all really to teach English in China, just to speak it natively? Is that right?

 

My cousin teaches English in Thailand, and he is dyslexic.