Fighter/Mage or Blade?

Remove all ads!

Is a Blade better than a Fighter (any kit) Mage?
Or is a F/M better?
If so which Fighter kit is the better of the 3? I know I see lot of "Kensai/Mage" around here. Are they the "best"?
Maybe the Berserker or the Wizard slayer (fight fire with fire I guess)?

 

Kensai/Mage is probably the best dual class ftr/mag combo you can get.

As a rule, any class that gets full spellcasting is better than the alternatives by default. That said, a properly specced blade is incredibly efficient at what it does.

 

The one thing I don't like is they don't get the level 7 or level 8 spells until real late and NO 9th level spells. Game balance though
Sure wish I'd have seen the blade kit when I was playing 2nd ed.

Thanks for the input Keneth

 

I'm pretty sure you can get 9th level spells with a kensai/mage in ToB or EE. The only time they couldn't get 9th level spells was in SoA with the 2.95M XP cap.

Or were you talking about blades? I don't recall bards getting anything past 6th level spells, but then again, it's been like a decade since I last fired up BG2.

Also, a massive goddamn spider decided to drop on top of me while I was typing this post. My brain has gone completely blank while I was flailing around, trying to catch it.

 

The AD&D blade was nothing like its BG2 counterpart. IIRC the former was more flair than substance, they didn't get any special combat abilities and the best they could do was try and intimidate their opponents with flashy performances.

Both the fighter/mage and the blade excel in melee while having access to powerful spells in BG2. The difference is that the fighter/mage becomes better at both fighting and spellcasting when it gets its HLAs, while the blade provides Improved Bard Song. Raw power vs increase in total damage done.

Outside of HLAs they're very similar as long as you use them right. Blades have lower THAC0 and don't get extra attacks per round, but with Melf's Minute Meteors + Offensive Spin alone they can already outfight most other warriors types. Staff of the Magi is pure cheese on a fighter/mage though.

 

LOL (about the spider). Sorry that really wasn't funny. I hate spiders!
As for the high level spells I meant for the bard.
With the BG2 tweaks it allows you to get up to level 8 arcane spells. It takes a LONG time to get up there though. Just checked, you have to get to level 29 as a blade in order to get 8th level spells as a bard. Again, you have to use the option in the BG2 tweaks.

---------- Added 0 hours, 3 minutes and 22 seconds later... ----------

Where do you get the SotM? I found where to get it once a long time ago. Got my ass handed to me on a BIG platinum plate. Lol.
I have to admit that it is one of the things I cheat with. Still would like to give that room another go though if some kind person would point me in the right direction?

---------- Added 0 hours, 6 minutes and 57 seconds later... ----------

Wasn't it 1st edition where in order to become a bard you had to go through something like 5 levels of fighter, 2 or 3 levels of rogue (sorry back then they were called thieves) and 2 or 3 levels in mage. You THEN could choose to become a 1st level bard. What a run for a pretty crappy character. I tried for it though. Kinda a challenge deal there with myself. Did almost get there before I came to my senses.

 

IIRC Staff of the Magi is inside the Twisted Rune chamber in the Bridge District (you need a Rogue Stone to get in). It's likely the hardest fight in the game though.

Also, I don't usually kill spiderbros, but if they come anywhere near my bed or my computer, they're fair game. Jumping on me from the damn ceiling is just suicide.

 

Yea spiders pretty much creep me out. If I see one I have to kill it. Most of them anyway. Depends where they are. Poor things just looking for food or something. Sorry to all the spiders through out my life and the ones to come.
THANKS BUD! NOW I'M FEELING SPIDERS CRAWLING ON MY HEAD!!.

 

Spiders? Where?

 

LOL!!

 

What spells would you suggest for a Blade?

 

Generally you want to focus on buffing and utility spells.

the token lvl 1 spells : chromatic orb, magic missile, you might also get some use out of the shield spell, the armor spell will beome useless too fast.
friends is useful for shopping, and blindness is a nice save-or-else debuff/disable spell.
lvl 2 : Staple spells here are blur and mirror image, web is good for disabling enemy packs though you might want to find a source of free action for yourself, and don't underestimate ray of enfeeblement - it reduces an enemies strength to 5, superuseful against those enemies that normally have a high score, they'll lose a ton of Thac0 and +to hit. get knock if you're going to go solo since blades get no lockpick skills.
lvl3 : Some damage spells here, Skull Trap is awesome since it goes up in damage as you level, and blades level pretty fast, also Melf's minute meteors count as +5, and will go through any combat protection in the game except for Protection from Magical Weapons. Haste is another staple spell for obvious reasons, other then that Ghost armor would be allright, giving you the same ac as plate armor for it's duration.
lvl4 : Spirit Armor is better then lvl 3's ghost armor, it gives you the same AC as full plate and lasts 2x as long. Stoneskin is obvious, getting hit won't do damage(besides magical or elemental) for as long as it is in effect.
Improved invisibility gives some good bonuses even when you (partially) come out of invisibility, and is great vs enemy spellcasters if they don't have true sight. Minor Sequencer has some utility use (load it up with 2x web since they stack), though isn't necessary. Honorable mention for spider spawn, since they can walk through webs.
lvl5 : Breach. it's THE spell to get rid of enemy spell protections besides spell shield Spell immunity is also very good, making you immune to an entire spell school. especially useful. vs abjuration protects you from remove magic, and maze/imprisonment, vs necromancy protects against energy drain, horrid wilting, skull traps and also works vs beholders' Cause Serious Wounds spell (though you'll still need spell shield to take care of their anti-magic rays) while immunity vs Evocation is nice when you put down or encounter a cloudkill/death fog patch you want to walk through.
lvl6 : Improved Haste - self explanatory, it's the best spell there is for any fighter/mage.
Protection from Magical Weapons - Again, pretty self explanatory, not the best spell for a fighter/mage, but a close second
Tenser's transformation - can turn you into a god of death if used right
Contingency is nice and has some utility use. True sight is also an alright spell to have here.

That's the list - lvl 6 mage spells is the highest bards can get.

 

Haha! With the tweaks you can get level 7 & 8 spells as a bard but it sure takes a while to get them

You mention chromatic orb & magic missile. What would you use the orb for instead of missiles?

WOOOW! I did not know that about the meteors! Very nice!

I sooo didn't even think of the spider spawn spell and them being able to move in a web spell. Duh me. Lol.

You say " Spell immunity is also very good, making you immune to an entire spell school" but you also say that the meteors get through anything but P.F. magic weapons. Do they still get through the immunity spell here?

Thanks a bunch for the help xosmi.

 

as you level up, chromatic orb gets a secondary save-or-else effect on top of it's damage :

Spell immunity : evocation will protect against melf's minute meteors, but only partially.
Still, i can't recall ever having encountered an enemy mage that cast spell immunity, so it shouldn't be a problem either way.

as far as lvl 7 and 8 spells go :

lvl 7 - Ruby Ray of Reversal is good for taking down mage defense spells, especially if you dont have a lot of lvl 5 spell slots to fill with breach.
Power Word: blind is a superbly useful disable spell - counts as aoe, not targeted so blows through enemy spell protections as well. finally Mordenkainen's Sword is probably the best summon in the game.

lvl 8 - Horrid Wilting is another damaging spell, but 15d6 damage is just too awesome to skip it. As annoying as those liches casting it are, Maze is an amazig spell to remove those tough enemies from combat while you take care of the rest of their buddies. Simulacrum is probably the best spell for you that this level offers, and once you hit high enough levels where your simulacrum also gets your lvl 6 spells, have it cast protection from magic weapons on itsself
Also, you can have lvl 9 scrolls in your quickslots, cast a simulacrum, then have the simulacrum use the duplicate of those scrolls it will have in it's quicklots, while you get to keep the originals.

 

Thanks for the advise xosmi

 

No problem, happy to help.
One spell i forgot to mention is the 7th level spell mislead - also creates a clone, though it can't attack, but it should still be able to use copies of the items you have in your quickslots.

 

I personally prefer using my blade as a nuker until the party mage reaches level 10+. At low levels my staples are Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, Fireball, Skull Trap, Melf's Minute Meteors, Haste, Stoneskin, Polymorph Self, Animate Dead and the Death Spell.
At low levels your blade should avoid going toe-to-toe against anything it can't kill in a few hits, since your buffs won't last very long.

Once the mage takes over nuking, I switch to buff spells. Besides those already mentioned, I'd definitely get Project Image. I'd also get the sequencer/trigger/contingency line of spells.

I don't use Improved Haste and Tenser's Transformation anymore these days.
In the enhanced version Improved Haste no longer stacks with Offensive Spin and other +attack per round effects (eg. Haste, Melf's). As in Improved Haste does absolutely nothing if you use Offensive Spin first and vice versa, instead of the two abilities "stacking" (used to be that their secondary effects stacked, only the "haste" effects didn't - which was not working correctly). It's one of the things I hate about the EE versions, they decided to change the whole thing instead of fixing it. Anyway Melf's Minute Meteors still works with Offensive Spin though, which should be your go-to combo if you want your blade to deal damage quickly. If you want to do even more damage just use other buffs + use Mislead/Simulacrum to conjure an image and have that image use the Improved Bard Song. The rest of the time just have your blade dual wield Belm/Kundane/Scarlet/etc and spam Offensive Spin.
Tenser's Transformation just isn't worth it. If you need more damage you can simply conjure an image and if you want to turn your blade into a temporary juggernaut of destruction (for those end game/demon prince fights) you can simply quaff potions of power/heroism with Use Any Item. That's what those are for.

 

AAAAAHHH! I HATE that spell. Well only because every mage in the game seems to have it. Lol. Can't say I blame them though. Really nice spell.

What level is animate dead? I don't think I've ever seen it

 

animate dead is a 3rd level cleric spell, and a 5th level mage spell. summons skeletons, starting at caster level 15 there's a chance it will summon a Skeleton Warrior.
since undead are immune to the effects of cloudkill, it's a really nice tactic to lock the enemy down with them, then cast a cloudkill on top of them while your party hangs back.
They're not that great at combat on their own, unless you cast haste on them

 

5th wizard. Damn it man! I looked right past it this time. I always take it but not high enough level with my new blade yet. I always thought it was summon skeletons for some stupid reason with the chance of a stronger one of some sort. You'd think by now I'd have realized it's named animate DEAD not animate SKELETONS. Lol
Well in my defense skeletons ARE undead. No? Not good enough excuse? Lol. I don't think so either