Pure Fighters

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This topic is a peply to the post of The Wretched under "Pure Thieves Useless".

Basically, it is also a little bit about powergaming.

I know, that after this post I will be buried under a load of answers saying that I am just plain stupid, but anyway, I do not use pure fighters. Yes, they are good. But not that good for me.

Reasons:

1. I never use full parties (max 3 pax)- it is more of a challenge and it is easier to manipulate. The XP is the same as I use 3 multis.

2. Everybody in my party is a fighter class, so everyone needs armor, weapons and skills to fight in the front line. I strongly believe that it is better to have three able fighters that one great fighter and two pieces of sh**.

3. In a party of 1 I took F/M/C. Up in chap 2 now.
In a party of 2 I wanted to cover 4 classes: F, M, T, C in two chars, so it was a choice between:
F/C & T/M - don't like it 'cause T/M is weak
F/M & C/T - low hitpoints for both
F/T & C/M - my choice.
In a party of 3 I want to get the ranger class because of its cool abilities.
So I take a Ranger Dual --> Cleric. That leaves me with two characters and three classes: F, M, T.
Yes, it could be possible to take a Fighter and a Thief/Illusionist, but the last one is not for my taste because it has low hp, armor and weapon restrictions, so I take F/T & F/M.

Now to the statistics.

My F/T before the final fight had 141 HP, my C/R had 131 (or close), and my F/Illusionist had not less than 120. Now THAT is sweet, isn't it? Privided you have Heal and an AC of -21 (with spells) for my F/T you don't need that many HP.

As for full specialisation, the bonus of GrandMaster over Specialized is +2 to hit and +3 to dam. Privided you have a +4 Axe and a Strength of 18/00 or more, you have a minimum bonus of +7 to hit and +10 to dam. (+3,+6 for Strength and +4,+4 for a weapon).

So a fighter gets +10, +15
and a F/T gets +8, + 12.

Not that much of a difference provided you trade off those bonus points for another good fighter (F/M in my case).

I'm open for comments on this post.

 

I agree, but for a different reason. I just find the specialist classes of Paladin, Ranger and Bard offer a richer gaming experience. Like the pure fighter they can play 'see monster - hit monster'; but they have other options like charm that winter wolf into attacking its bretheren or cure that suffering party member even if your cleric is confused/helpless/hopeless.
If dwarven tanks are your thing - fine, I just got a bit bored with them.
Roll on specialisation kits!

 

hey, i agree with u guys on that, i've been going solo for a while with a fighter/mage, and if i'm out of spells its boring as H#ll, know what i mean , wish i had a theif though

 

Well I think it's time for an alternate post here. Yep there’s always one of ‘Those types’. So here it is:

Pure Fighters not worth it? WRRRONGGG –by the way I posted my Fighters stats -no potions- just natural w/armor/items/weapons.
There is something to be said about Weapon Specialization of Grand Mastery. Such as +3 to hit, + 5 damage, 2 Attacks/Round.
MODJAHED was gracious enough to give some stats with a basic scenario so now it's time to do the math.
***edit ADD after reading this, I have posted a follow up in a POST below...***
Lets say I have the +4 two-handed sword (the best is the "of BackBiting" but not for this scenario) and Specialization of Grand Mastery. Lets also say I go up against MODJAHED's F/T (mentioned above with 141h.p. at the end of the game) and a natural A.C.. A natural F/T vs. a natural FIGHTER –no potions, no spells. How many hits from my FIGHTER can be delivered before taking out MODJAHED's F/T? The FIGHTER will get 3 to 4 attacks -naturally- and will deliver at a minimum of 16-25 damage with a normal hit and 32-50 damage minimum with a critical. Theoretically (and only THEORETICALLY) that means with 3-4 Natural and Critical hits with MAX damage(in just ONE round...) and the 141hp F/T is gone. If (and only IF) all attacks hit whether natural hits or critical hits, that means:

3 attacks for natural hits-damage is :48pts min, 75pts max
4 attacks for natural hits-damage is :64pts min, 100pts max
3 attacks for critical hits-damage is :96pts min, 150pts max
4 attacks for critical hits-damage is :128pts min, 200 pts max

scenario modifiers: 18/00 STR +3/+6, Weap Spec GM + 3/+5 and 2 Atts/Rnd, +4/+4 1d10 two-handed Sword, 1 to 2 Atts/Rnd lvl 14/15 Fighter.

IF YOU ARE STILL not impressed with a PURE FIGHTER try the following - I did:
In the End Fight, turn off Scripts. Set them to 'None'. Turn off the parties AI. Go in for the final battle and send your Paladin or Ranger or ANY other class to do 'Toe to Toe' battle with Behlefiet (sp.? -sorry). My PURE FIGHTER WON (I've posted him). Let me know how yours character does. Very serious, I’d like to know what class can pull off the end fight alone…. Other than a FIGHTER. Let me know.


[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited August 25, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited August 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited August 26, 2000).]

 

Let me start from the end. I am determined to prove that the whole game can be beaten by one char F/M/C. And this also goes for the last bad guy.

Second. If you read my post carefully, I said that I do not use fighters because they do not fit that much in my gaming scheme. I never claimed that a pure fighter is weaker that a multiclass one.

And third, that was a very sweet scenario of your guy killing mine in two rounds.

But, for a while let us imagine another situation: your poor unexpecting fighter is standing and catching his breath after a huge battle - and BANG! my F/T hidden in shadows delivers a x4 BACKSTAB! for 60-70 HP. And accidentally he wears a ring of thieves that gives him a nice little extra attack per round. So I get 1/2 attack more per round than your fighter. How is that?

 

Why would anyone use a dule class that involves a cleric?

you have the fighters abilities...but you are restricted to using only weapons that a cleric can use....and that is what a dagger

 

Great topic -by the way. Really I think topics like these help all to ‘evaluate’ or ‘re-evaluate’ conceptions regarding specific classes.

But on to the subject. Take it EASY Mojahed, I was only giving a make believe 'scenario' with your F/T. Don't take it personally. After all the F/T that you gave stats/info on above sounds like he rocks! I know that I get attached to my characters a bit too soooo, I should’ve ‘re –worded’ my earlier POST from “My guy v.s. Your guy” scenario implication to something a bit more palatable and less personal – aaaaight?

However, I was pointing to a scenario that would 'portray' why a FIGHTER is a FIGHTER. No pun intended but they FIGHT -like no other class. Yes I’ve seen the ring that gives an extra attack, just like I’ve seen the sword that gives an extra attack... nuff' said. Also, I’ve enjoyed playing Thieves and also enjoy the ‘Backstab’ that you referred to. AT THIS POINT I am morally compelled to copy and paste your words from another POST which stated by you: “Btw, during my last time through IWD I never used backstab. It's just not my style.” Yep you typed them there words mister, again nuff’ said.

But a couple of things Mojahed, that I really am curious to see. Speaking honestly as a fellow ‘gamer’. The first is how far you actually get in the game with ONE Character (of course …not implying anything here… but no cheats… whatsoever). The other thing is this: How you truly handled the major ‘tough’ guys in IWD, how you handled all of the locked doors, chests, cabinets etc and finally how you beat Behlefiet in the end. You of course may have some ‘disbeliever’s’ so keep numerous games saved in many game slots so that ‘if you feel so motivated’ you can email these games to those ‘disbeliever’s’. Thus enabling them to eat humble pie. Just a heads up on this, I’ll be on that list of emailed ‘disbeliever’s’ IF you even care to take up such a list…

 

Someone asked why use a dual-class involving a cleric. I'm doing that right now. I have a fighter dualled to cleric at level 3. The point is to get 3 stars in missile weapons, to make the sling a little more useful. In a previous party my straight cleric had THAC0 11 with a +2 sling at level 9. This dualled one has THAC0 6 with a +2 sling at level 9. (I think I have these numbers right.) Also has an extra attack. It's a good improvement. Also this one is getting 10% of the party kills, where the previous one had 2%. This means she's a lot closer to pulling her weight in the party in combat.

I don't think the rest of the party is any worse. Rather, the increase in percentage indicates the party is killing foes a little quicker.

A multi-class fighter/cleric wouldn't be as good for my purposes. She could get at most two stars in missile weapons and would always be about one level behind in cleric abilities, making a little less healing available.