Soloing a mage...

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If YOU were Sarevok, and some azzmonkey monsters started appearing in your headquarters, would you just stand around taking hits from cloudkills, etc?

No, you would say, "Hmmm, a whole bunch of azzmonkey monsters just started appearing in my headquarters. There must be a sneaky mage around here. Woops, where did that cloudkill come from? I better move out of it and kill that mage. Good thing these monsters can't really hurt me in my uber armor...just let me find that sumbeech mage and I'll teach him something in a hurry."

No, I'm sorry but its not possible for a magician to take Sarevok in anything like a reasonable fight at the levels attainable in BG1. Now, I grant you that would not the be case if you add 5 or so more levels to the mage....but at level 7-9 beating Sarevok with a solo mage requires cheating and/or exploiting bad AI (even though it is within the rules and you may consider it legit)

Oh, by the way we all know that summoning a hoarde of monsters is some cheese in BG1 that was good to be removed from BG2.

We all know that there is a power curve for mages just as for all classes and while the peak for mages is very powerful, it is slow in coming and happesn well after level 7-9.

 

subra one of the main reasons that the summon limit was made in bg2 was because the level of monsters that you summon are the same as in bg1, while your enemies are 10X harder and it takes one hit per summon with the crappy lvl 1 spells and even monster summoning 3 is crap.

 

Thank you Cadderly, but the point was to reply to the original poster and those who commented below him/her. The question was about the feasibility of completing the game as a solo mage. Obviously, the skill of the player figures largely into such an attempt, and for much of the game a solo mage can be done without a great deal of difficulty.

My point is that some encounters, specifically the one major encounter needed to win the game is not legitimately possible with a solo mage at the levels attainable in BG1.

By legitimately, I mean not exploiting game mechanics and weak AI to do things which wouldn't otherwise be possible.

Even if you summon up 50 or more creatures, Sarevok would understand these creatures didn't just wander into his citadel on their own and since he is virtually invulnerable to such pathetic creatures...once you cast such a spell in his room, he would start looking for you with murderous intent.

I've not looked, but I'm estimating Sarevok to have the power of approximately a level 12+ fighter with even more hitpoints. In his mighty armor, he would decorate the draperies with guts of a level 7-9 solo mage.

A higher level mage with more mirror images, stoneskins, damaging and disabling spells and a pack full of potions this would not be the case...but during the BG1 game, its just not possible for a mage to reach this height of power.

That is why you have hearty adventuring companions.

 

My 9th level mage killed Sarevok completely within the rules of the game. No cheating.

I equipped the Ring of Wizardry which doubled my first level spells, wore the Boots of Speed to keep a step ahead of him, and then pelted him with one Magic Missile after another. It took a while to bring him down but I got him in the end with my final Magic Missile. Sarevok never even landed a hit on me due to my rather cowardly approach of running off every time he got near me.

Cheesy? Yes. Cheating? No.

 

Certainly, the rules of the game allow all sorts of cheating. Here's another good example:

A group of non-hostile, named bandits is discovered by your stealthy scout and after making sure the area is clear of other creatures, you bring up your party leader and the named bandit leader steps toward you to speak. Everything is fine so far right, but here is where people begin exploiting the poor AI...

As the bandit leader is headed toward you, you turn and run back to your party with the bandit leader coming right along behind you. This totally separates the bandit group and is within the rules of the game. BUT it isn't legit...the bandits wouldn't react that way. If you did turn and flee, they would not have just one guy follow you and leave the others behind.

As far as making Sarevok chase your mage around while you pounded him with MM....where was Angelo or Tazok? He has enough people to thwart this tactic. You exploited the poor AI and used the fog of war to hide/separate/etc. Its ok...its your game...but its still cheating and it doesn't counter my point, it emphasizes it.

 

You can't kill me with a solo mage without cheese!!

 

Angelo, Tazok and Semaj were there as well, Subra. But the Boots of Speed kept me out of the way of Tazok and I made sure to keep a fair distance from Angelo and Semaj as I slowly wore Sarevok down.

I don't consider this cheating. Cheating is using CTRL Y to instantly kill enemies; turning down the AI to its lowest level so enemies don't react properly; using Cloudkill to slaughter enemies off screen. They're all cheating. My tactic is definitely cheesy but not cheating.

[ April 30, 2004, 14:44: Message edited by: david w ]

 

Not cheesy at all! Good job david w (what do they expect from a solo mage).

 

Hello everybody. I have a question.
In Durlag's tower.
Soultaker dagger. -> What is it? And how can I use it?

Plese write!

Thank you very much!

Cotty

 

@Cotty

You shouldn't ask your general question in someone else's unrelated thread...not that anyone who originally cared is still reading it.

But to answer you...it is a quest item that you need to retrieve and you can't use it as a weapon.

 

I still don't understand what your point is Subra. Limiting what spells a magic-user is allowed to use is like limiting what weapons a fighter is allowed to use. That's like saying if you're playing a fighter a get hurt, it's cheesy to run away and drink a healing potion while Sarevok chases you. Unless you actually beat Sarevok witha fighter and killed him quick enough that you didn't have to run away an drink healing potions, and while that may be mathematically possible, it is highly unlikely.

 

Aldeth, my point is not suggesting to a limiting of the spells a magic user is able to use for any encounter. My point is very simple.

A mage at the levels attainable in BG does not have the spell repetoire needed to win some of the game's encounters....specifically the one encounter to win the game.

The game has a limited AI and one that is easily exploited. By exploiting the AI, yes you can win these encounters, but its still exploiting.

Just put yourself in the position of Sarevok. Envision how you would react under the same circumstances and the weakness of the AI and the exploit should be self evident.

The "fog of war" was intended to be a constraint on the player, but it is very easy to exploit it.

Do you think because Sarevok cannot see you due to the "fog of war" limiting his vision the same as it does yours, means that you can attack Tazok and draw him out without Semaj and Sarevok coming along to find out who just shot Tazok with an arrow of biting? Its laughable.

Tazok would shout, "Hey boss, someone just shot me with a magic acid bolt or something, lets go chop him into little bits".

Semaj would say "Hold on men, I'm going to clear out those pissant summoned monsters with a fireball...don't go running out into my fireball."

Sarevok would say, "Shut up Tazok, you pansy, and Semaj you hold off on that fireball stuff, I can see its only 1 little magician running around over there. All that summoned crap can't hurt me in my uber armor. Cast a haste on me and I'll catch that little bastard and pull his arms off."

Play the game how you like friends, but if you want to be fair, play in such a way that doesn't handicap the NPC's by exploiting weak AI. Some call it cheese, some call it cheat, whatever. Its exploiting weak AI to do things or cause things to occur that logically would not or could not happen if the NPC were guided by real intelligence. I think you will find your game much more enjoyable if you try to avoid such exploits, and to restate my point...oh yes I remember I had a point....a solo mage can succeed in certain encounters ONLY by exploitation of the limitations of the AI.

 

I never mentioned using the fog of war technique to get the better of Sarevok. I hit him with spells from a distance and kept on running away every time he got close to me. It's a pretty cheesy way of handling things but I don't see how it's taking advantage of the game's poor AI. Nine times out of ten it might not work, but for the one time it *does* it's well worth trying.

 

I'd like to add a few points here. First of all, if you summon LOTS of monsters (say you come in with a few wands of monster summoning) you could make it phyically impossible for Sarevok to get to you, no matter how good the AI is. Sure the guy is tall, but I don't think he could step OVER a skeleton or an ogrillon. Secondly, I don't think Semaj could whipe out an entire army of little creatures with a fireball, because I don't ever recall him ever casting one. I've seen him fire off a lighning bolt, but I don't think he has fireball memorized.

To be honest, I think the most difficult battle to solo is NOT the end battle with Sarevok, it's the battle on the top floor of the Iron Throne's base in Baldur's Gate. (and the Tanar'ri sucks too)

 

Impossible for a solo mage to beat Sarevok?!...Hardly. You'll have enough defensive spells to keep him from hitting you AND with your mighty army of monsters, it'll be hard for him to get by anyways! And so, while he's hacking away at your monsters...you simply blast him with magic missles and periodically summon more monsters until he dies..

 

I agree that Sarevok's cronies on the top floor of the Iron Throne would indeed be another battle where exploiting would be the solo mage option.

The battle at the Duchal Palace another.

The demon and other battles in TotSC are not required to advance the plot so they can be skipped but they too would require exploiting the limits of the game for a solo mage. I agree.

A solo mage just doesn't have the disabling and protection spells at these levels...like I said before, add a few more levels and the equation shifts the other way.