SOU changes good news for Paladin

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I suppose this is a 'look at me' post. I've time off though so I went and picked it up today. I know there were a few people who'd be really interested in some of the Paladin changes (Bel and Mat) so I thought I'd post them.

I see some of this info linked already from the games page -- the spell info. but am not sure that all the changes are there so thought I'd post anyways.

Seems to me that the Paladin got some nice boosts. First, the Paladin has a few new spells. He gets endure elements as a first level spell which may not seem like much given he has resist elements at second level. Second level has some really useful spells though so it frees up some slots there including for a new second level spell. One of the big boosts though is the new Divine Favor first level spell. The paladin will get +1 to hit and damage for every three caster levels up to +5. That to me, seems like a really nice boost. At second level the paladin gets the spell Aura of Courage which gives a +4 charisma bonus and +4 bonus to allies vs. fear. This charisma boost is really nice it appears because it could be combined with Eagle's Splendor for a huge charisma boost which is very nice given.......

The new feats. There are two new feats that seem like they were almost designed for the Paladin: Divine Might and Divine Shield. Divine Might allows a character, three times per day, to add his charisma bonus to all damage and the feat lasts a number of rounds equal to his charisma bonus. Divine Shield allows, three times per day, the character to add his charisma bonus to his armor class and this also lasts a number of rounds equal to his charisma bonus.

The difficulty some had with the Paladin before was his need to have stats spread out much more than a typical fighter. His charisma bonus helped his saving throws, smite evil, lay on hands, and turn undead. Now, the charisma bonus will also apply to divine shield and divine might if they are chosen.

So, thinking as I type, suppose we look at a Paladin with a readily obtained base charisma of 14 (I'm thinking 14 or 16 is likely what I'd go with so I'll use the lower score.) Without any equipment, suppose he casts eagles splendor and the new Aura of Courage spell -- he now has a charisma of 20-23. With the above feats, that will be at least +5 damage, +5 AC, for five rounds and then you combine the new Divine Favor spell and you can have +5 hit, +10 damage, and +5 AC for at least 5 rounds. Adding charisma boosting items will give even larger increases of course. And of course you're still getting the saving throw benefits, turning undead etc.

That strikes me as pretty strong. The disadvantage of course is that to get those benefits you'll have to choose those two feats meaning you can't get other feats but still... at first glance appears to be a nice little boost (if you can call +5 hit, +10 damage, +5 AC 'little'.)

There are some other really great feats. I'm looking at zen archery espescially and thinking of how cool it looks.

 

Congrats on getting it so soon. I tried at lunhc with no luck. Feel free to post any other changes you come across.

 

Well, here is one helpful tip. You have to enter the CD key code to install of course. When I opened up my manual to look at the front cover -- it wasn't there. I looked throughout the book no dice. Tried the NWN code and no dice. Started to pack it up to take it back and a red sheet of paper fell out. The paper was folded and opening it reveals a message from Atari that is essentially "oops, we screwed up and here is a key code, write it on the inside cover of your book."

I don't know how wide spread this screw up is but knowing about it in advance would beat spending 10 minutes looking for the key code and becoming frustrated.

 

Bioware had that info posted on the website last night. Hopefully the paper is not too well hidden in the packaging.

 

Before deciding I'd botched up the order of my feats for my rogue/future shadowdancer I decided I have fallen in love with a new skill: tumble. What a great skill for any rogue or any type of character that's going to be moving in and out of battle creating attacks of opportunity. I'd imagine it is espescially useful if you have a rogue who will be moving around a lot looking for a sneak attack, like me. Basically, any time there is an attack of opportunity there is a tumble roll check against a DC of 15. If you make the roll, you avoid the attack. It gets better - for every 5 points spent you get a +1 to AC.

I'm really intrigued by the Arcane Archer though. I've always loved archers. So, I thought I'd give it a whirl and was trying to think about how to make mine. I would most like to concentrate on combat with the character but you have to be able to cast arcane magic to take the class.

So, I was looking at the new spells and wow -- a new level one spell not so great for a straight wizard but seems to be made for a class that is primarily a fighting class with just a minor in wizard. The spell is True Strike which grants an astounding +20 to attack rolls. That bonus is really ridiculously high at first glance at least. Other new low level spells that seem made for melee classes wanting to take just a few levels of wizard include the level one spell shield which gives +4 AC, and the third level spell displacement granting 50% concealment. On the other hand, if you wanted to go with a Bard it may be worthwhile because since a fighter or ranger etc will have to take at least one level in wizard to get the class your to hit will catch up and the Bard has some nice new spells too.

I know the spells could be found via a link on the game page here but they're pretty interesting I thought.

Another neat thing is that if you are into multiplayer with the right group and right environment I think you could really start to shape a great party leader with some of the new feats and skills. Feats like Silver Palm and Thug and the Appraise skill probably won't be used too much in SP but in the right multiplayer environment if you could pick these skills as a party leader it may be well worthwhile.

 

I have to agree, tumble is very nice. I got my copy last night on the way home from work and played for about 3.5 hours. I've been planning an Arcane Archer since I read about them. I am wondering if the tumble skill will only be used when you are moving or if it might also help while spell casting or firing a bow.

I started my character as a half-elven bard and then multiclassed into fighter. He's currently at brd2/ftr1. I am planning to take him to brd6/ftr2 before adding in the archer at level 9 along with Rapid Shot as my 9th level feat. The +6 BAB takes longer for a bard than a wiz(1-2)/ftr-type(6-5). After a couple levels of archer I think he's going to study music again for a couple more levels to up his bardsong and spell casting, then stay with the way of the bow.

I thought that the new campaign was done wonderfully. Much better than the OC. What did you think?

 

So far, I am enjoying the new campaign. But then, I enjoyed the OC as well which a number of people can't stand so...

I haven't really gone far enough yet to talk much about the campaign, and wouldn't want to reveal any spoilers anyways, but it is pretty enjoyable to me so far.

The best thing though will be the added flexibility that the new feats, spells, and prestige classes will allow for developing your character. Nicely done imo. Like you I'm trying for Arcane Archer but am going a totally different path and I really like that such a thing is possible. You're going bard/fighter while I'm going fighter/wizard but you could go straight bard, or straight wizard, or ranger/wizard, or fighter/sorcerer or.... I like it. I thought about going half elf fighter/sorcerer myslef before settling on elf fighter/wizard.

 

Yes, the added flexibility is great. I was even thinking about a Sorcerer/Paladin/Arcane Archer. The more I think about it, the more I think that we are sure to see some of those. That would allow the character to specialize in DEX and CHA and get the most benefits.

I also like the new skills, but there are fewer of those.

Divine Archer, now that would be a pin-cushion waiting to happen!

 

Oh heck yeah! Have paladin will travel.

Now .. can I be an aasimar so I can start with a 20 CHA???

 

I also was testing the Circle Kick feat. This feat is just made for monks. I don't have the exact text, but it gives the character an extra attack whenever he scores a hit with an Improved Unarmed Strike.

When I test this on a 20th level monk, he ended up being able to make up to 9 attacks per round. Five base + 1 Flurry of Blows + 1 Circle Kick + 1 Cleave + 1 Haste. At 1-20+ points of damage per hit, he can dish out some serious hurt in a group. I wonder what would happen if I also gave him the Great Cleave feat and put him into the middle of an army goblins/kobold/orcs/etc.?

 

Discipline is also now a class skill for the Paladin apparently which is a nice plus too.

 

I've done the main SoU campaign with a 'pure' Paladin, and I have to say their new feats, skills and spells make them much nicer to play...

I found the main campaign in SoU to be rather easy with a Paladin max-ing out at level 13 (I think I missed a few things) even though I didn't use a henchman (I hate them...AI my rear end). Character progress was as follows:

1. Power Attack (for chest opening, there aren't as many 15-20 resistant chests now, so this is enough, and it works nice on most creatures).
2. Cleave
3. Weapon Focus (Longsword)
4. Great Cleave (very, very useful. Some of the battles are a bit 'wade in' like).
5. Divine Might (by this point I was doing silly damage already, this made it nasty!)

*** Minor Spoiler ***

There is also some good kit for the Paladin as well for a change...

 

You know, I was looking through a list of potential paladin types on the bioware site, looking for a hooks when the Paladin of the Red Knight and the Talon of Bahamut/Paladin of Bahamut stuck out.

The Red Knight is essentially (usually I suppose) Paladin/Fighter while the Paladin of Bahamut is either Paladin/Sorcerer or Paladin/Cleric according to what I read. I thought they were interesting but then I got to thinking that the decision on whether to multi and what to multi to from a utility stand point may be different in SOU.

On the one hand, the Paladin has discipline as a class skill now. On the other hand, there are a number of neat new feats that would be nice to have for melee and the paladin is stretched pretty thin feat wise as is. With the addition of Divine Shield and Divine Might you have some tough feat choices if you're a straight paladin. What gets cut? Weapon focus? Knockdown? The new Great Cleave? Toughness? It'll make taking exotic weapons for bastard swords tougher too. So, maybe more people will start thinking 4-6 fighter levels for the feats.

But, on the other hand 4-6 cleric levels makes for some mighty fine buffing spells. The new ones include the tasty Divine Favor and Shield of Faith Spells whose names just scream out for a paladin don't they?

So, what do y'all think? Sacrafice those feats or those domain powers and nice buffing spells?

Or do you just really try to compromise and go something like 16/2/2?

 

You can easily live without weapon focus. It seems like an awful waste of a feat for a measly +1 to hit.

Ditto Great Cleave. Just how many baddies do you expect to take out in one turn? So long as you have regular old plain vanilla cleave, you'll be fine.

I personally never bother with exotic weapons. Since BG2, all my paladins use greatswords anyways.

Knockdown is nice and the extra 20 HP from Toughness comes in handy in some of the tougher battles though even that is not essential.

 

you get 20hp from toughness!?

 

Toughness = 1hp/level.

 

In PnP D&D Toughness feat gives you 3hp. And thats it.

Shadowdancer seems cool to me. And i almost cant belive their incredible hit die. d8 per level .

Also i look forward to Zen Archery... clerics and druids will kick ass with ranged weapons
I've also heard there are some nice new spells for druids. Me likes that very much.

Cant wait to get SoU... as long as ALFA will adopt it.