Druid build

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I am thinking of giving SoU another try, this time with a Druid char (druid being a spellcaster type I did not try yet).

So I looked at the available spells, they do not look too bad. At least at higher levels, once I get some decent damage spells, I should be okay.

At lower levels, though, it looks like I will have to rely on summons. Here the ideea would be to try of tank, leaving my companions to do damage. Probably some dex would then help, for increased AC.

So I am thinking about the following stats:

WIS 16 (I do not like spending extra points, but I guess this is sort of minimum for a spellcasting class)

DEX 14 (for the +2 AC, also reflex save)

INT 13 or 14 (in my opinion, Expertise is a must have feat for spell-casting classes, since the penalty to attack bonus does not matter while casting, but you still get the AC bonus)

CHA 8 (druids spend all their time in wilderness, they are not supossed to be especially charismatic)

CON 10 or 11, depending on INT
STR 14

Human, pick expertise and Spell focus- enchantment
at first level (I think sleep is going to be a must use spell at low levels; and there are decent Enchantment spells up to level 4)

Multiclassing
With high DEX, once I get some druid levels, I will consider some multiclassing options. The most obvious I think is Rogue: so I can get some skill points in find an disable traps (also Tumble would be very useful, since it allows you to escape attacks of opportunity while moving around), and with two levels of rogue you get evasion, which I think is a very cool feat to have). But, an intriguing thought would be a monk level instead; this grant evasion directly, also cleave, and +2 saves to Reflex, Will and Fortitude. I expect I will still be wearing armor, so I do not think I will make use the unarmed attack feats of the monk, but that should be okay. Also, at some point, if I find I need some extra feats, I could throw in a level or two of fighter.

I am not sure if a monk still gets cleave if it has STR less than 13. If yes, I might lower STR and increase CON.

So, what are your thoughts?

 

For the stats, i'd say ditch dex and rely on expertise/stoneskin, giving more points to throw in con, you wont be much of a tank with 1d8/lvl since your AC wont raise to the heavens with expertise alone.
I assume the int is for knockdown? might as well make it even (more skills).

And you don't really have to use summons at all, tinker the stats and make a druid/ranger and you should be fine.

Anyway, if you're going to include monk, i'd fix it at either 2 or 6 lvls, 2 for the exploit, 6 for knockdown. Personally, i wouldn't include monk at all.

You could make a pure druid, you can still tank AND land a punch (lower levels, summons. higher levels, shapes (no exp penalty)). The differences are simply that you wont be as good in melle in the beginning, but you'll be better by the end.

 

Well, higher Con is not very helpful at low levels, since it gives you just one hp per level. So, since at start you get max hp per level, a lev 3 druid gets 24 base hp; +3 from Con is not significant. At higher levels I think I can get enough AC (with barkskin) to make a decent tank.

Even at lev 15, I'd rather have +1 to AC and +1 to reflex saves than +15 hp and +1 to fortitude. After all, those +15 hp are really usefull only if you get close to death

Also, the use of evasion relies on good reflex saves.

What extras do you get from a 2nd level in monk class? I would not go to lev 6 monk, since I want to keep the spellcasting power up.

AFAIK, you need 13+ INT for expertise.

 

Guess i'm just not used to AC tanks without dex, but they wont have much AC without it... anyway.

The second level of monk is well... exploiting, but it's a monk-thing with having more attacks than everyone else.

Further info:
It can be pushed to a whopping 12 attack per rounds!
With the help of 2 monk levels, you could get 8 attacks per round without buffs, and to get 12 it's adviced to be a cleric.

 

The other option is go the Shifter route to get your tanking abilities. Then you don't need to bother much with STR and DEX because your shapes will provided the necessary physical boosts. Also, with Bull's Strength and Barkskin available early, you don't need STR and DEX as natural scores that much.

 

Yeh, but getting shapeshifter levels means losing spellcasting power. As I understand this class, druids are supposed to get quite powerful once they get to lev 7 (so they can cast flamestrike, stoneskin and hold monster). So I want to get there as fast as I can, with maybe just one level used for an alternate class (hence my interest for one level of monk).

Also, from reading your thread my impression is that those shapes are not that great to start with

 

What about a Lawful Neutral monk/druid wearing no armour, not even leather?

 

Well, I am not sure how the monk class really works. I know that they are supposed to use no weapons and wear no armor. Instead, they get wisdom bonus added to AC. Which is about +3 or +4 at the start; so it is not negligible, but still, you can get better armor than that.

Oh yes, and if you level up in monk class, you get some extra attacks with the empty hand or kama. But for this to matter, you have to get more monk levels, which I do not really want (as my char would be primarily a druid).

So I am not sure if with just one lev of Monk I want to use armor or not. But this is a decision I can make on the spot, just try it and see how it goes, I do not need to plan ahead for it.

 

Other than the fact that you will have to Lawful Neutral from the start.

 

Well, you can always mix it with ranger a little. Perhaps even Druid/Ranger/Shadowdancer. Or take the Shifter prestige class. Or a cleric level for domain powers. Druid/Ranger/Harper Scout for a more roleplayish build.

 

A druid in his own shape isn't half the tank he could be, you could always try druid/ranger/shadowdancer (as mentioned above) for a more subtle approach.
For tanking matters, the AC from shield, armor and expertise should save you most of the time, but you could have monk and harper scout to buff your AC even more.

 

How would ranger levels add to tanking power? Aside from sligthly higher hp per level.

Shadowdancer might help... but I think you need quite high hide and move silently skills before taking this class. And since these are cross-class skill for druids...

Harbourboy: right, I need to start with lawful neutral. And so I did; however, this seems to create some problems Apparently I do not know how to play lawful, since my score dropped from 100 to something like 86 I have no ideea why. So far, I just gotten into the village, cleared the kobolds in the inn (I made them take me hostage, then I cast sleep on them and slaughtered them - this also changed my alignment toward good ) and talked to the false priest. So I might not be lawful much more time . I'll probably move to neutral good. Question is, will I still get to use the monk feats (like cleave and evasion) if I am not lawful anymore?

 

Bashing down doors makes you more chaotic.

 

Heh, I healed the wounded bear in the forest outside Hilltop (an action perfectly in agreement with the druid ethos, I would say), and I get a message which says: your alignment has changed 2 points towards good, if you continue on this path you will not be able to level up in the druid class anymore ROTFL!

Question: do the bonuses fron spell focus and improved spell focus stack? Meaning, from the feat description, SF gives you +2 to DC for the chosen domain; then ISF gives you +4; is this on top of the first +2 for a total of +6? Or you just have the +4?

 

You can still use what the class gave you, but you wont be able to level it up once you're non-lawful.
AFAIK the bonuses doesn't stack.

 

Well, I do not intend to level up beyond first level of monk anyhow. As long as I can use the first level monk feats I am fine.

Also, I think a good point to add a level of monk would be once I have 6 (or 7) druid levels. Then I can put all my skill points at level-up (7) in tumble, bring it up to 10 (which gives +2 to AC)

 

How about playing a Shifter/Druid?

You would be able to get some really cool shapes, and you can do a split of Druid/Shifter levels evenly so that you retain spellcasting AND you can use all those awesome shapes.

Fully buffed Druid shifted into Risen Lord is NASTY!!

Edit: Woo Hoo!!! New Gem!!!

I'm gonna get me a Rogue Stone soon at this rate!

 

Pre-epics, shifters aren't that useful, and you will get an * elemental shape as a druid, which is enouth to kill just about everything.

* Starts as a 'normal' elemental, but it'll change to 'elder' as one progresses in druid levels.

 

True...but they have a lot of utility still...

I'd definitely find Humanoid Shape, Wyrmling Shape etc very useful for the OC even if I was pre-epic, especially with a few buffs to sweeten the package!

 

For epic shapes, i'd go with outsider since you can't get dragon without spending a lot of wisdom, which requires a lot of levels.
And as an outsider, you'll get the ever-valuable rakshasa.

[ August 24, 2005, 16:42: Message edited by: erikhk ]