Misconceptions

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there're a lot of specialists with a variety of occupations and hobbies on these boards, so this'll be a tutoring topic for the layman...

WHAT ASPECT OF YOUR PARTICULAR FIELD OF INTERST IS OFTEN MISINTERPRETED/MISUNDERSTOOD BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

a very general one, just to begin with...

science is not an exact science

shock! horror! while individual experiments are usually rigorously carried out, the way that one research group interprets the results is not necessarily correct! decent scientists never assume that what they read is 'the truth' and will instead scour research papers to look for flaws in reasoning and experimental execution. so when a headline in a newspaper such as "cure for cancer discovered" (aside from the journalistic sensationalism), there is often a research group that believes the exact opposite of a finding is true and are going all-out to disprove the work of others, rather than waiting for more evidence from another party. this opposition can sometimes get out-of-hand, where the objective of an entire group of researchers can be to refute the claims of another group! the message is- don't assume that 'science' is a single community that believes the same thing.

[ September 17, 2002, 15:33: Message edited by: the god ]

 

Almost everything people believe is wrong...

For example, most people do not believe in God, they believe THAT they believe in God. Small but important difference. If you sit down and ask them exactly WHAT they believe and why (I've done this with many people), all you get are vague answers.
Why did you choose this religion over that one? What is the core of your belief? Do you think everyone who has different beliefs than you is going to hell?
It all boils down to "someone who sounded like they knew what they were talking about told me to believe this, so I did". That's the way most people operate. They don't really take the time to examine most things, they just latch on to it because it's what thier parents did or whatever.

 

I agree with what Nutrimat have just said. A lot of people do not know just exactly what they believed in. I know a lot of people who have been so religious with their actions but have absolutely no idea whatsoever they believed in. A good example of this would be my aunt. She's a devouted Roman Catholic, she have crucifixes and images of the virgin Mary along with images of Buddha, she burns incense and offer food to some Chinese gods, and go to Catholic church for mass. And she also believes in Fung-Shui (Chinese Geomancy) and Filipino superstition. What she believed in actually contradicted each other and when you confronted her about the facts, her inability to explain her situation would actually turned you into the devil's advocate. It is also a pity to know people who's faith was simply based on the "being born into a <religion name> family". Their explaination of their choice of religion was because that is the religion of their parents. And like their parents, they can vague tell what exactly they believed in.

On a lighter side and my field of work, most people think that the computer is one incredible machine that can perform almost anything. I'm not saying it does not but every tech guy knows that the computer is just one incredibly fast and accurate stupid piece of hardware running buggy softwares programmed by some intelligent people called programmers.

 

I'm a christian myself and I know what I believe. But I would like to know a little more about other religions, though.
My thing is:
Each time I tell people I'm a christian, they ask me if I go to church every day. If I only listen to organ-music, if im allowed to drink alcohol, worse: If my life is realy boring!
Come on, man! I'm not a dull nerd!
I party more than anyone in my vicinty, I listen to all kinds of music.
The only difference is that I dont do drugs, im (almost) never drunk and I try to save sex till im married. If that means I have a boring life, you're wrong. If you need alcohol, drugs and sex for a nice life, you must be pretty dull yourself.

 

fantastic! this topic is not supposed to be philosophical or metaphysical! not that i think this thread needs further clarification, but everyone has their own opinion (e.g. on religions), but what i intented this topic for are facts- information that is correct without doubt but is usually misunderstood by non-specialists.

but because i'm naturally argumentative, here is a counter-arguement for Nutrimat and nior: what if someone has a firm belief but may not've been able to articulate it adequately because they're just not as good at arguing? just because they've recieved information from someone else does not mean that they don't believe in it! otherwise, the only people who'd be religious are those that have never been taught any and have experienced divine revelations. by your reasoning, almost everything is 'wrong', because we haven't experienced it ourselves (i'll ignore descartes here). do you believe the moon doesn't exist because you've never been there yourself?

is there any way i can make this topic any clearer? i was hoping for e.g. insights into law from sir bel or cancer/ageing from nobleman... anyway, here's another from me:

evolution by natural selection is directed towards specific goals

often it's poorly-worded statements that perpetuate inaccurate beliefs. here's an example, 'the giraffe's neck is long so that it can reach the leaves of tall trees'. no. it's not the case that giraffe ancestors had short necks, looked up one day and thought "look at all those leaves up there! if i can find a mate with a long neck, maybe we'll have long-necked children that'll be able to eat those leaves!". if we continue along this line of reasoning, it suggests that giraffe necks became progressively longer and longer to exploit a resource (niche) unavailable to other animals. what actually happened was that when giraffe necks were still short, those freaks-of-nature with slightly longer necks could eat leaves that were slightly higher off the ground. as a consequence of being better fed, the freaks would've had a better chance of surviving (in times of short food supply) and later, mating to produce more freaky-looking progeny. more and more of the giraffe population would've then been composed of 'horizontally-advantaged' freaks, who would be more likely to breed with each other (because they are more likely to survive). after millions of years the competition between giraffes would stabilise to a state of dynamic equilibrium as they effectively corner the market in tree-top grazing. :chew:

 

Adolf Hitler was german.
He was actually austrian.

Time is money.
Maybe it's because i have no time, i have no money.

90% of all diseases are psychosomatic (grammar?).
Most people think you have no disease if it is psychosomatically induced. But that's wrong. You're ill though.

 

The wisest post I've read in a a long time the god . And no your's is not the only one I have read

Anyway, one thing I hate is that non-scientists keep bugging me with the misconception that the human genome project is the last thing needed for molecularbiologists. The human genome doesn't tell us everything about proteomics etc. The humane genome project is not the end. Its the beginning. Get it people.

[ September 18, 2002, 18:47: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

Oh, but Nobleman! It's still way cool!

Unfortunately for you, you have stumbled on *my* pet scientific peeve: the belief that, because we scientists understand what we do, what we do is not *magic*. It is. The human genome project is an awe-inspiring acheivement, and will -- has! -- alter what it means to be human. Not to mention what it means to be a molecular biologist! When our profs were doctoral candidates, cloning a single gene homologue in a new species was enough for a PhD. Now, undergraduates do piddly stuff like that.

Those who say that the HGP is the end-all of molecular biology are laymen, and instead of pooh-poohing them, you should feed their enthusiasm and help them to put it in perspective.

After all, they feed you -- right? Unless you work for Pfizer or Monsanto, you should know that NIH and NSF are abbreviations for "that guy in front of you whose taxes pay your rent."

And molecular biology is the best, most important, most interesting magic there is. I firmly believe that if people only knew how cool it was to explore these mysteries, they'd *all* do it. If it were not that cool, would any of us be able to explain why we splash around in phenol and 32P to do what is primarily mindless and repetitive cooking? I will know that I need to find a new field if *I* ever catch myself pulling the "wisdom is only possessed by the learned" routine on some taxpayer.

 

I'm no expert on anything really but have a few hobbies...

I reckon Comuters are misunderstood

Each one is individual and has it's own personality, many may disbelief this, but haven't you noticed how some are friendlier than others? Computers aren't inanimate objects either - many are more active than their users and deserve decent working conditions (my laptop is currently on leave.) While some people respect their computers - how many give presents to their motherboard on mothers day? Or get their computers christmas and birthday presents? not many do, if any.

Another misunderstood hobby: Parent baiting

Parents are always setting restrictions, I usually find that I don't understand why they are set and never get an explanation either, if you aren't told why you aren't supposed to do something then it is likely you'll go ahead and do it anyway. It is also when parents think everyone online is a pervert that you aren't allowed on chat, games with real players or Forums - I have just about gained acces to Forums and games, though I'm not supposed to 'talk' to anybody - if that is the case, then there is no point. Can somebody please explain to me why parents act like this? As the minds of parents must be a science in its own!

 

You are so right Methylviolet. I can't remember how many gelelectrophoresis I have run. How many E-coli cultures I have grow etc, how many mass-spec I have run on some innovative matrix. But it still is awesome and interesting. Why? It is all about the pioneer experiences each day.

OFF TOPPIC
Where do you work anyway Methyl? I have a feeling you've been in the business a lot longer than me. My future most likely lies in ACE Biosciences. Depends on if I get a PhD or not. (most likely not). Their work is basicly protein communication in bacteria/fungi tranfering deseases. With the aim to find better medical treatments. Whats your way cool company?

[ September 18, 2002, 22:51: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

First, let me say I love science (and scientists ). Amazing stuff!

My field of expertise is classical music. A typical misconception is that we're always having a good time. Or that our life is ideal because we get to do what we love all the time. Most people don't realize the stress involved in our job. The standards we are expected to maintain everytime we play would be akin to an olympic athlete in training his whole life. Jobs are becoming more and more scarce. Income is ridiculously low for the amount of training and education that go into learning to play an instrument well. Not to mention the cost of our instruments (stringed instruments) which are collected by millionaires as investments thereby driving costs up so high (100K minimum for a fine instrument) we musicians can't afford to buy them anymore. We don't get week-ends or Holidays off. And finally, we often have to ruin a piece of great music when we have a conductor who hasn't got a musical bone in his body. That's painful.

[ September 18, 2002, 23:22: Message edited by: scarampella ]

 

I have no real area of expertise but if I would be forced to choose one I would have to say politics. And the only thing my 'expertise' can tell you about it is that things are always way more complicated and complex than anyone can grasp. And that it is never ever possible to make general statements and put forward 'facts', because there are never any facts and what is perceived as facts might change in an instant. Truth is a relative concept. I find it impossible to jump in into the 'political' discussions on this board because of the huge amount of people that hasnt the slightest idea what is going on and are still dead set in their beliefs and *know* that they have the truth.

It is impossible to know anything and there is no truth nor right or wrong. (Not even this)

[ September 19, 2002, 00:12: Message edited by: joacqin ]

 

It is easier to speak than get something said.
An old russian saying Joacqin.

So what if there is no truth. Then all we have to do is find the most useful lie. Then we can all agree. If nothing else, then atleast with oneself.

[ September 19, 2002, 02:50: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

To the God: I don't really see how my post was off topic. We were talking about misperceptions. I mentioned that people believe things without understanding why or even what it is they believe. I cited a religious example. To me that was a misperception.

If you believe a truck is speeding towards you, you would jump out of the way, would you not? Well, if you believe in God, and all the teachings of Christ, why do you not spend a significant portion of your time helping other people, sacrificing your time and effort towards your fellow man? The only person I can think of that truly perceived the real meaning of Christianity and followed it was Mother Teresa. She had no fancy clothes, no big television screen, no nice home in a good part of town. She truly believed, and showed her belief through her actions, didn't just go to church on Sundays, drop a few bucks in the collection plate, and consider herself a "believer". Everyone else (myself included) are deluding themselves.

But, since you say this is off topic, I'll put up something to redeem myself
I am a computer programmer (COBOL). I work on a mainframe computer. I do not have experience in Java, Windows programming, C++, or Visual Basic.
Yet, my family tells me "well they use computers at my work. Maybe you could get a job here!". I try to explain that even though they might have computers at your work, it is not even remotely connected to what I do. But it's no use. So now I just say "Oh yeah, I'll have to check that out."
They nod thier heads, satisfied that they have interacted with me on a meaningful level about something "complex".

Here are some common misperceptions:
Adam and Eve ate an apple because a snake tempted them: The bible does not say snake or apple. It refers only to a serpent, which in biblical parlance could have meant any crawling thing. And it refers only to "the fruit of the tree".

Alcohol was outlawed during Prohibition: It was illegal to maufacture, sell or transport alcohol, owning or drinking alcohol was legal.

The Great Wall of China is the only man made object visible from space: Why would it be more visible, than, say, the Mall of America in Minneapolis? Because it's longer? Is a thread more visible at 10 feet than a raisin?

Jesus was born by "Immaculate conception": Actually, MARY was the one born by immaculate conception. Look it up.

Fortune cookies and Chop Suey are American inventions.

"We don't need no stinkin' badges" is a misquote. The actual line was "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges!". Also, Sherlock Holmes never once uttered the words "Elementary, my dear Watson" in any of Doyles books. He did say "Elementary!" a few times though.

St. Patrick was not Irish. He was British.

Ostriches do not bury thier heads in the sand.

Urine is actually sterile when it leaves the body. The bateria set on it when it sits stagnant for a period of time. I believe British soldiers have used it as an antiseptic during Word War II.

Tarantulas are NOT poisonous.

Lightning DOES strike twice. Lightning travels the path of least resistance, so often does strike the same place over and over. In fact tall buildings are sometimes hit several dozen times a year.

Lemmings travel on a suicide march and jump off cliffs: I remember seeing this in a Disney movie way back when. Then I read that the little critters were actually tossed off by the filmakers, or herded off with cattle prods.

We have only five senses: Balance, pain, and temperature are also senses.

Abner Doubleday did not invent the american sport baseball. It actually was derived from a British sport called "rounders". It was made into it's current form by a man named Alexander Cartwight.

Caesar (people were not commonly called by thier first names back then) was not an Emperor. Rome was a Republic in his time.

There is a bizzare belief here in the US that if you live with a person of the opposite sex for seven years you will be considered legally married to them. This is known as "common law" marriage. I lived with this girl for almost six years, and people used to tell me this all the time "oh in a year you won't have to get married, it will be automatic." In fact this is a myth and has no basis in fact whatsoever.

So you see, I am a font of useless knowledge!

[ September 19, 2002, 04:37: Message edited by: Nutrimat ]

 

Oooh, good response, Nutrimat!

ff: The whole Christian thing: ach, how true, and I never do hear actual *Christians* say it. Do you know, I almost typed out the sermon on the mount for a guy who posted in "Homosexuality," because, though he professed Christianity, he sounded kind of... Old Testament to me. I don't personally believe in the divinity of Jesus -- that's just me -- but anyone who really truly follows the teachings of Jesus has all my respect.

So, anyway, I have often wondered about that.

Speaking of evolution -- this very day, I went to get my son from school and got to talking to his Ancient Civilizations teacher. I see an early man poster on the wall and ask her just how ancient these civilizations go. She says that they do some study of early man, but not much because it is controversial.

Oh, brother -- I'm thinking.

"There is really so much that is not known," she says.

"None of these kids will ever know *my* opinion," she says.

"But I try to challenge them -- I say, 'humans evolved from chimpanzees: that's what they say, right? Well, who put the chimpanzees here?'" she says, with the smirk of a point driven home.

"Ah," says I, "well, with that you've made your opinion pretty clear. To an adult, anyway."

And men of Europe, I offer this to you as excuse for our appalling American ignorance of evolution and matters scientific. How can we learn that humans did not evolve from chimpanzees, let alone that giraffes did not stretch their necks to reach those upper leaves, if those who are hired to teach us that VIEW IT AS A MATTER OF OPINION???

Unless, of course, we have mothers who bore us catatonic all the ride home with a dissection of some nitwit teacher's argument.

 

i apologise in advance. i'm feeling silly today, so i'm going to provide some very weak responses to Nutrimatss factfile:

apples are rotten to the core.

even kevin costner was okay in the untouchables.

you can step over hadrian's wall.

joseph must've thought he'd married a woman 'generous with her favours' before the angel visited him.

only pizza base, toh-mah-toe sauce and herbs (particularly oreh-gahn-ohh) make a pizza a 'pizza'. cheese is just a topping, like anchovies.

"passes? passes?! i don't have to show you no stinking passes!" -starscream in the transformers episode 'ghost in the machine'.

great britain doesn't include northern ireland, the united kingdom does.

students rarely bury their heads in books.

we have evolved the ability to produce warm piss in order to conserve money on needing to heat it. "mmm... piss!"

women with hairy legs might as well be tarantulas.

true love strikes several times. 'love' is a chemical imbalance also known as 'boing' and has a strong correlation with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

lemmings have green hair and are killed in a variety of ways using your mouse.

the 9th sense would not have been catchy.

teachers take a sick pleasure in getting kids to run around in shorts with a wooden trutcheon during winter.

president is a vile brand of emmentale cheese.

i've been married to both my sisters and my mother.

thanks Nutrimat!

 

Nutrimat.

Some believers are strong, some not so strong. Only God knows when they have done what they could AND should. You can't ask all believers to put up a list of facts for their belief. The strenght of belief starts with believing in a god and works UP from there, right? It is not as you implied in your first post, that belief is a quizz that you have to pass with a certain amount of correct answers. The only question you have to answer with your heart is; "Do you believe".

God will notice those who do not answer with their heart. So don't worry if you get cheated or not, if that was what it was all about, that quest of yours, studying believers.

 

So if I said to you "What do you believe", and your only response was "I believe in God", and you could not say ANYTHING else about your faith except that, you would actually consider your belief to be valid?

Sorry, but If all you have is a vague belief that there's this mysterious being who somehow "knows everything" and if you're "good" you will go to this big magic kingdom (kinda like Disneyland) when you die, I do not consider you to have a valid religious belief.

To me, if you have faith, you should be able to cite specific things about what you believe. Otherwise you are deluding yourself. Yet many people I talk to don't have any idea what it is that they actually believe. Sure they can tell you that Jesus was the son of God, and maybe even quote a few of the commandments at you, but that does not mean they are religious.

I have talked to people, and I've had conversations that went like this:
Me: What does God mean to you?
Them: Well, he's, you know, God.
Me: So you believe God is male?
Them: Uh, I guess.
Me: So you think God is a physical being?
Them: No, he's the Holy Spirit.
Me: What does that mean? Do you worship a vapor, like a cloud of gas?
Them: No. It's beyond our comprehension.
Me: I'll say. Well, If God is not a physical being, how can he be male?
Them: Well, he's not a physical being, but he's still male. But he's God, and he knows everything, and he's good and if you worship him, then when you die you will go to the Magic Kingdom
Me: OK, now we are getting somewhere. Ok, if God knows everything, why is there so much suffering in the world?
Them: God works in mysterious ways.
Me: What the hell does that mean? It's just something that religious idiots spew when they can't explain something.
Them: (getting irritated) Fine, I don't know, okay? Satan is responsible for a lot of the bad things that happen in the world. You have free will, so you have to resist temptation and try to be good.
Me: And then you will go to heaven?
Them: Yes!
Me: Ok, so what if you do bad things, but then you're sorry?
Them: Well, God will forgive you!
Me: What if I deliberately do something bad, knowing that I can be forgiven if I say I';m sorry?
Them: No, it doesn't work like that.
Me: But what if I do this and then I really AM sorry? Would I still be forgiven?
Them: (frowning) I guess.
Me: Do you go to church on Sunday?
Them: Yes, I go to church on Sundays and the major religious holidays.
Me: Why on Sunday? Why don't you go to church on Tuesday?
Them: Well, that's when you go. <pause> It says in the bible.
Me: I don't remember reading that. In fact I don't remember reading anything about church in the bible, or worshipping only on a specific day.
Them: Well, most people go on Sunday because that's supposed to be a day of rest. But I guess you could go whenever you wanted. My Grandmother used to go Sundays and Wednesdays.
Me: So you only worship God on Sunday? What about the other 6 days? You put aside your belief every other day of the week, right?
Them: No I believe in God all the time, it is not necessary to go to church every day.
Me: OK, give me an example of how you follow God on, say, a Thursday or Saturday.
Them: Well, I try to be good to people.
Me: In what way?
Them: I contribute money to charity.
Me: Oh really? How much?
Them: Well, the amount doesn't really matter. The point is, I helped people.
Me: Have you ever helped the homeless?
Them: No.
Me: Have you ever given money to a needy family?
Them: Well I gave to Toys for Tots on Christmas. And when those firemen were collecting last month I gave them a few bucks.
Me: So you are going to Heaven?
Them: I think so. Look, I'm not a bible thumper, but I am a good person and I believe in God, so I'm going to Heaven.
Me: Ok, so what are the qualifications to get in? Is there a screening process? How do they weed out the riffraff?
Them: I think you just have to be good and believe in God.
NOTE: Christians will also add that you have to believe that Jesus was the son of God.
Me: Let's back up a sec. You said we have free will right? That means we are free to do anything we choose, right?
Them: Yes, we have to choose whether to worship God or not. That's the point.
Me: Allright, and God knows everything, does he?
Them: Yes, he is the Alpha an the Omega, he is Omnipotent.
Me: So he knows the future, right?
Them: Yeah, sure.
Me: So he knows what's going to happen thousands or even millions of years from now?
Them: Er, I don't know about that.
Me: Well, you said he was omnipotent, and knows EVERYTHING. The future is included in everything.
Them: Ok, he knows everything, including the future.
Me: How do you reconcile that with free will?
Them: What?
Me: Well, if God knows everything, then you don't have free will because he knows what you are going to do before you do it. So what's the point of trying to entice you to worship him, if he already knows whether you're going to or not?
Them: You're making my brain hurt. I don't want to talk about this any more.

[ September 19, 2002, 19:33: Message edited by: Nutrimat ]

 

Reading the bible is far far from enough to understand christianity in essence. And one needs to note that the old testament and new testament are contradicting each other on some points.
God appears like a antropomorph god in the old testament (walking in the garden of eden, talking, has hands etc.) and moreover, in the old testament he is one god, not the only one.
The new testament doesn't support god as antropomorph, nor as one god among many.
And since when you believe in the new testament, it builds on the old one, already here we have contradictions.
As for the believers, I'd agree that if they believe that they believe, it would be sufficient to respect. (as mentioned above).
Knowing you believe and not that you know, makes a big difference. Like Sokrates, he knew he didn't really know anything, and that his point of origin wasn't a dilusional(sp?) one.
There are many different forms of christianity today, all based upon how you interpret the holy texts. Just take a look on Catholics and Protestants. Basicly switching faith to something personal between you and christ(protestant) from going through the divine translators (the church/catholics).

My personal opinion would be that if you want a religion that makes sense from it's religious text, you should look at Islam. I have to admit Islam and it's believers who follow it have my respects.
And to all those condemning due to terrorism attacks, methinks they should go read the koran to know what they're talking about.

[ September 19, 2002, 19:51: Message edited by: Lokken ]

 

Er, watch the sophistry there Nutrimat.

In particular, free will is free from the perspective of the individual -- that is, some kid who dropped out of high-school, whose mom is a prostitute and has no dad, who is addicted to an expensive illegal substance, whose friends are all car thieves... still makes a real decision to steal a particular car. Maybe every one of you knew I was going to say that -- but I still made a free decision about what to say.

So God's omniscience does not preclude human free will.