Racial Issues

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Ratchett: Feh, I be sick to the back teeth hearin about how great the bloody poncey longlimbs are....

Paul: Calm your rage brother, surely we cin live together in a spirit of Moradinian harmony, like Legolas an' Gimli.

 

I thought gnomes and hobitts were esentially the same thing.

 

There sure is a difference between Gnomes and Hobbits. Just look at their stats, bonusses and penalties and read the discription of both races in BG 1 or 2.

About the Elves and Dwarves: I totally agree. Elves and Dwarves have the same enemy, they are all in a fight against evil. And as we can see in the LOTR-trilogy, that can make both races live together in peace.

 

Gnomes are more dwarf than hobbitt. Gnomes are actually a "cousin" of dwarves.

Orcs are elves. Melkor recreated the elves for them to become his dark servants (some of the first things told in Silmarillion).

Aren't hobbitt and halfling the same?

 

Hobbits and Halflings are the same.

Hobbits is how they call themselves, Halflings is how Humans and Elves call the Hobbits.

 

Now i will admit that it has been some time since i cracked ther pages of the Silmarillion, but I do remember that elves were not created to be dark servants. I also remember that due to the way dwarves were made, they had no love for the living, and sought only what they could craft from their own hand.

 

Orcs are created from elves. I am sure. Dwarves are a race created by the god of earth or something (his name begins with an A?).

[This message has been edited by Mollusken (edited May 31, 2001).]

 

The Dwarves where made by Aulë, one of the Ainur. He had great power to make things but he made the Dwarves without telling Eru, the One. Eru discoverd this and came to Aulë when he created the 7 first Dwarves. He showed mercy to Aulë, but also said that because of this, there would be hate between Dwarves and Elves, between his people and Aulë's people.

also see this topic: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000273.html

Orks are indeed Elves. The elves that Melkor and later Sauron captured, where tortured and slaved by him and so they where turned to Orks slowly.

 

I seem to recall that you are both right about the elves/orcs. That quote is bang on but what Tolkien doesn't come right out and say is how Melkor created the orcs. Tolkien doesn't answer this one for us but leaves us to figure it out.

 

I just looked in the book and confirmed what Ellesar said. The quote was right but tolkien was being elusive. he said the thing about orcs being created from elves later.

--FenixStrife

 

There is no war hate between elves and dwarves, but Gimli was the first dwarf to ever be let up in the royal tree huts of Lorien. Even so, I never think I read about any trouble between Gimli and Legolas. In the end of the book (or like most of it), they were best mates.

 

Yes but that was something strange. When Aragorn, Gomli and Legolas meet Eomer in the fields of Rohan, Eomer say: Strange thing happen nowadays, Elf and Dwarf walk together...... It wasn't normal. Long ago the relationship between Dwarves and Elves was good but in the beginning of the 3rd area there wasn't war between them but there was hate between both races. (as Eru said.)

 

No war hate between elves and dwarves? Maybe not in tolkien, but about every other fantasy setting includes the war between those races. Just look at Warhammer and Dragonlance!

 

I've just thought of something. The enemity between elves and dwarves could be a parallel of some other thing, cast in fantasy archetypes. Now I always thought of it as the class war. With Dwarves as "the little guy", the working classes and elves as aristocrats. But maybe, there's a better parallel in the gender war.

Physical Characteristics
Elves : Lean, elegant, graceful.
Dwarves: Muscular, facial hair

Cultural Focus
Elves: Poetry
Dwarves: Beer

Primary Ocupation besides cultural focus
Elves: Magic
Dwarves: Hitting things with hammers

Huh?

 

That sounds about right Ironbeard. Where's the problem?

 

Actually there was a war between elves and dwarfs. The dwarfs killed the elven king Thingol, becasuse they were greedy and wanted his tresaures. (Quenta Silmarillon, XXII) And Celeborn, the sinda Lord doesn't like Gimli too

[This message has been edited by Alyr Arkhon (edited August 20, 2001).]

 

Interesting (and entirely appropriate) that a debate about what "really" is dwarfish, elven, etc. becomes a debate on what Tolkien wrote.

Headbanger, I just wanted to point out that "halfling" vs. "hobbit" was something changed because "hobbit" was something Tolkien invented. I believe early D&D (or was it early fantasy books?) referred to "hobbits" but had to change because of trouble with Tolkien's estate.

 

Also I wonder if part of the trouble between the dwarven and elven races has to do with the dwarven weapon on choice, the axe. A weapon that is also well suted to cutting down trees. I seem to recall that Gimli eather had is axe taken away or he promisd he wouldent draw it while he was in the elven forest.