What's the difference?

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Khementi? Hell, singapore? uh.

Yes, Arkados. The world is full of pain. accept it. Those who are the strongest decide what is right or wrong. But on this planet US, Europe and russian Stand together. So we are Good. Why? dont ask. its feelings and perceptions, not logic. Logic as you put it.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

well the buddha said life is suffering and we should try to help all sentient beings..
but man is just evil and good all in one. human innit..

 

exactly nobleman. at last we agree.

EDIT kay maybe we dont. alright we are argueing in circles now. i think i'll stop. let others voice their opinions.
oh and for those of you who think im slamming the USA, im not. i am coming from a neutral point of view. if this forum was filled with palestenian hatred towards america i would probably be defending america's point of view.

[This message has been edited by Arkados Blackmire (edited September 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Arkados Blackmire (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Arkados,

Japan made a military attempt for the whole of Eastern Asia! I think you should ask yourself some relevant questions about how they went about that. It sure as hell was not a bloodless war on the part of the civilians in that part of the world! Still havent made an unequivocal apology for the treatment of POW's either.

Please stop dragging up that particular line now.

 

i think what arkados be trying to say is killing is killing is killing
germans kill jews japs kill americans americans kill japs back terrorists kill americans etc.

 

No we dont agree Arkados. Because I find your logic rather chaotic. You just get a debate out of this by discussing semantics. I Cant find any logic in the terrorist acts. I can find logic in the US acts.

But religion and blind hatred can feed the most sinister violence.

Anyway if you claim US to be evil, then they are the most passive evil I have ever seen. Imagine those Jihad organisations had power equal to the US? well for once we could not sit here at SP. They would wipe out anyone that didnt believe in their religion.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

Arkados, at first, Japan DIDN'T surrender. That's why we dropped the second bomb. And still, less life was lost than if a ground war were fought. Not only that, but do you remember (or have heard of) all the US soldiers who murdered innocent civilians in Vietnam? It was from rage. Pure hatred. Imagine several million US troops loosed into highly populated areas after having lost hundreds of thousands on Japanese ground. General Patton said it best, "When you put your hand, into a pile of goo, that was your best friend's face...you'll know what to do."

 

Good vs. Evil:

The fireball at the WTC reminded me of those fireballs I saw in this videoclip about villages in Vietnam, when this burnt little girl ran away.

Now should I draw the conclusion that:
napalm = good
fuel = evil

???

No, I shouldn't. I should alsways think about the words of Gandhi:

Reporter: Mr. Gandhi, what do you think about western civilisation?
Gandhi: It would be a good idea.

This isn't a fight between good and evil. This is a fight of interests. Both sides have legitimate interests. Both sides use illegitimate means. World isn't black and white. The world is complex.

American troops in Saudi Arabia is a slap in the face of muslims. Noone who has a LITTLE understanding of muslim religion will deny that. People like Osama Bin Laden are fueled by this fact. Their initial goals can be regarded legitimate, their means are horrendous, wrong, inhuman. They have to be condemned. But this doesn't relieve us from the knowledge that their initial goals were understandable.

Other example (the other way round): The legitimate interest of the US was to harm USSR sphere of inluence in Afghanistan back in the eigthies. Their means (pumping 6 billion dollars worth of arms into the hands of the Taliban) wasn't. There are so many ways of wrongdoing, you'll hardly be able to avoid them.

Once again: the world is complex. Only children believe in the story of good vs. evil. Grown ups should believe in brotherhood of humans. If you point at the other side, you most certainly have to point at your side as well.

And a last word: Killing innocent isn't much more outrageous than just killing. No man should kill another man (but when his own life or the life of beloved ones is threatened). The "other side" just killed a lot of "our side". We are now going to kill a lot of the "other side". What a great, civilised, well considered idea.

 

Rendelius, an insightful post. I agree that violence only breeds more violence. Unfortunately this is not an ideal world.

Extremist, you should be aware that this attack has been called an act of war by Bush. We are preparing for a war on terrorism, and NATO has declared its support in this effort. China has also expressed its support. My hope is that Afghanistan will be unnerved by the prospect of the international community standing behind America, and decide to cooperate.