Tome and Blood

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I figured I'd post this topic in a seperate forum just to keep the debate out of the THACO question raised by Herf. I just bought the suppliment today, and it seems like as good a thing to debate on as any. What do you all think about the suppliment. Is the new Sorcerer/Wizard class information a bit too overpowered, or is it just more interesting and well thought out than what was found in some of the other suppliments. Here's my first impressions based on my initial thumbing through of the book:

-The new spells are nice, and I think they are pretty mundane and not overpowered. I like the new nemocracy spells, especially hide life (WOW!). The spells affecting familiars are nice as well. And who can't love healing spells for mages. Now what are clerics good for
-The new feats aren't bad either. Some are a bit, well, much I guess. But overall, not too bad.
-I wasn't really impressed with the new improved familiars. While definately more powerful than what was origionally available, they're really just extra.
-Really like the new permanency-arcane sight spell. That could be very usefull. As could a permanant Private Sanctum.
-Where the really nice extra stuff comes into play, IMO, is the prestige class listings. Some of those are definately powerful, some too powerfull really. But some that you would think are too powerfull do have their balances, and I'm just thinking of the spellsword. Definate plus for fighter/mages, but you don't get spells as fast either, so that's a real drawback to consider. However, Accolyte of the Skin, Dragon Disciple, and Alienist are REALLY powerful, at least at first glance. It's hard to say if they are too powerful or not, but they do have potential to be.

Overall, though, I really do like what they added. But, for my money, twenty dollars is a little steep for the book. These suppliments need to be priced lower, as the core rule books cost that friggin much (though worth it).

 

Actually I don't think the Repair minor, moderate etc spell is a healing spell for wizards. I do believe it is a spell for repairing objects. And then I think of doors, walls, mayby weapons and armors and stuff like that.
And IMO there is a reason why it's called PRESTIGE CLASS.
As I see it you should not be able to become the prestige class you want to be when you want to be it. You should do something spesial, take a test, a little bit of training or something like that. How can you become a Bladesinger when you don't know what a Bladesinger is.

 

As per my comments in the THAC0 topic on T&B I think it is a good book overall. BTW it was only $16 in the US not $20.

I agree that the presteige classes are the main area that I see problems. Becoming a half dragon and getting a breath weapon at 15th lvl or the power of the class - I forget the name - where you cut of a limb and attach a undead one. I see the abuse of these abilities.

I agree with Kerric that you should not be able to just 'become' a presteige class when you meet the basic requirements. The DM needs to make players earn it. And simple training does not cut it either. I'd make PCs go on a envolved quest or achieve some complex objective. In order to limit abuse the DM needs to keep a strong hold on these classes.

But on a role-playing angle I glad that all these new options exist for wizards. High level wizard should have imazing powers, with just need to balance them. I agree that slowing spell progression is on option and DM's should feel free to take things from getting out of hand in their campaigns. Feel free to change the prestiege as they see fit.

 

I like the Dragon Diciple prestige class, I think to become one the player should role play thinking that he his decended from a Dragon extensively, otherwise be fairly automatic (the power of positive thinking or self delusion).

 

Boon, The Dragon Diciple appears to be one of the more unbalanced of the new T&B prestiege classes. I say any PC interested would have to interact with a dragon to a great deal. I'd say more than just role-playing, even though that is extremely important. I make the PC obtain some rare item, dragon's blood or something. They'd have to do some REALLY special to either create or 'find' they dragon traits.

The prestiege class just appears rather powerful and it doesn't limit spell progression. My main concern would be not to damage game balance.

Do you think to is to powerful compared to the prestiege class in Sword & Fist or Defenders of the Faith?

 

True they are powerfull but overall the most interesting of the prestige class listed. Maybe as a added condition they have to bathe in the blood of A Dragon they have killed. Also I dont beleive anyone but sorcerers should be allowed the class, as I dont think there is a general belief that they have the blood of dragons flowing through them. I think however I will have a certain kobold sorcerer npc in my game become one. Yes I think I use a npc as a test run to judge the class in terms of game balance.

 

Actually a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple would be an excelent character for a high level evil advisary. That would definately be something to go against, especially if he were at full strength in the prestige class.

 

How do you feel about the new metamagic feats in T&B used with the prestige classes? For example, elementalism, energy doubling and the like.

I think the feats, and prestige class in T&B are much more powerful then the one's from Def. or S&F. Do you see this trend increasing in books to come?

 

Somehow I don't see the trend continuing. There are only 2 books left, Song and Silence and the book, whatever it's name shall be, for Druids and Rangers. I personally think they've already done the most powerfull classes, so it would really take some amazing prestige classes/feats to make these classes overpowered. Besides, I do think that the mages/sorcerers really should have more fantastic add on stuff as they are the most fantastic classes in the game, with the best ability to really improve themselves through magic and study.

 

While the Dragon Discipile has many advantages (+8 to strength, +2 to Con, +2 to Int, and +2 to Charisma when fully lvld) he also only gets 7 new spells and no new spell lvls. I think this balances out the good.

 

I'm with Caleb, on the subject. When you're a spellcaster and you don't pick up any spell levels, you're giving up quite a lot. Honestly, I find the prospect of a 20th level sorcerer much more frightening than that of a 10th level sorcerer/10th level dragon disciple. I thought the Forgotten Realms stuff upped power level much more so than the tome and blood book, but what else would you expect from the Forgotten Realms.

Cullain

 

I don't know. I think a 10th lvl Dragon Disciple would be pretty awesome. Come on, he has wings!

 

max level 5 spells, c'mon, that just suck too much. This prestige class is really cool if it wasn't for this factor.

And fly on a highlevel sorcerer/mage would make up for wings, you have to be mediumsized in the beginning to gain those wings as well.