D&D and Weapon Proficiencies

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Hi all. I just had a discussion with a colleage that is DM in D&D. I only played D&D based games yet (BG, BG2) so I don't know very much about D&D, however I know some things about it (this week I will start to play D&D 3rd edition)

The discussion was about Weapon Profiencies. He told me that it is impossible to specialize beyong 2 profiency-slots per weapon. In Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Mages and Thiefs could only put one slot in a weapon, the rest only two slots per weapon, except for the Fighter, that can become grandmaster with a weapon, that are 5 slots in one weapon. Then you have +3 Thaco and +2 damage, 2 attacks per round iirc. The last thing was the problem, my colleage told me that you can't specialize beyond two slots per weapon. I just can't imagine that the 5 slots rule was made by interplay and just isn't a D&D rule. Can someone tell me how it really is in D&D? Is is maybe a difference between the different editions of (A)D&D?

Already thanks for the time

 

Well, I can't say I know the answer you want to hear, but the dungeon master can do pretty much what he/she wants, and in the BG games, BI is the dungeon master, and I assume it's a custom rule(if things are as your friend says they are) they made for increased specializing your character (for roleplaying or powergamer reasons are yet to be heard).

 

Ah, D&D history....

In the first edition of AD&D there was no such thing as specialization until Unearthed Arcana came out in the late 80's (little more than a decade after the original).

In second edition AD&D, specialization was an 'optional' rule. And yes, a fighter could only specialize once, not multiple times. They could spend an extra proficiency slot to specialize in any melee weapon (total of two slots) or 2 extra slots for bow or crossbow (total of three slots).

Having said that, most of these rules changed as modifications and additions were made to the rules through the years. A lot of the Accessory books for fighters, mages, theives, etc., contain rules and skills that differ considerably from the core rules. Rules from such books are always considered optional, or at the discretion of the DM. Also, you'll find that in each of the different campaign world settings (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and others) the rules again can vary drastically (such as no clerics in the original Dragonlance world). And, of course, the DM can allow or disallow most of these rules as deemed necessary -- plus whatever is part of their own world.

I find the CRPG versions of the game differ considerably than the P&P version. Primarily, in P&P to take a character from 1st level to 20th level usually takes several years, unlike the 60 to 80 hours it takes in CRPG. For example, the Elminster character (which I believe is about 21st level) took years and years to develop, as did Drizzt, and many of those others that make cameos. Hmmm....that was a slight digression....

Haven't actually played 3rd edition yet, though I have the core rule books and I'm really looking forward to it. I think that they've really made some improvements, making it extremely flexible. Enjoy, and hope the answer wasn't too long...

 

Headbanger, I think the core of your question depends on the edition of D&D you are playing. In 2nd edition the rules are rather the same as in BG2. There are a list of weapons and each character uses proficency slots (stars in the game) to improve their ability with that weapon. One slot for proficent, 2 for specialized, etc.

In 3E this is all different. Characters in 3E are proficent in a class of weapons, simple (daggers, staff, maces, picks, X-bows, club, etc), martial (Swords, axes, bow, etc) or exotic (the weird stuff like double bladed axes and the like). Depending on your class you have acess to the first two of these groups. For example mage are proficent in simple weapons, warrior types in both. This proficency lets a character use the weapon with out penality.

In order to gain more 'proficency' you can use feats. Weapon focus gives a +1 to hit with one weapon type, weapon specialization feat gives +2 to damge. There are a bunch of feats that improve your attack ability. And in 3E characters gain extra attacks with levels like the fighter in 2E but to a greater degree.

You really need to read the PHB to obtain all the details. This was a simple answer and there are lots of exceptions. I hope this answers you question to a degree. I'd be happy to go over any details if you have questions.

 

Gnolyn Lochbreaker gave the right answer I suppose. I start a 3rd edition D&D campaign this week. I have more knowledge of 2nd edition rules I suppose, for 2nd edition is used in BG and Bg2 (and I played that games many times )

The colleage of mine plays AD&D, which is if I understood this correctly the edition that was brought out before D&D 2nd edition.

As Gnolyn Lochbreaker said, the profiency rules where changed somewhat in D&D 2nd edition, in AD&D you can only put one profiency slot per weapon, and fighters 2.

Thanks a lot!

 

It got pretty confusing between the different editions, plus D&D vs. AD&D. Especially when they started releasing the different boxed sets for D&D (Basic, Expert and Advanced). Then you had five different versions! 3 D&D (Basic, Expert and Advanced), and 2 AD&D (1st and 2nd edition).

I remember one session where we had a group of people accidentally trying to play using three differnt versions; 2nd edition AD&D, a couple of players still using 1st edition AD&D, and one guy thinking we'd meant the D&D Advanced box set It got very confusing.

 

It sounds like that session would have been very interesting. I think the way proficiencies are done in 3E is a huge improvement, both with weopon and non-weopon/skills. I actually developed a Non-weopon system in one of my 2E campaigns that was almost exactly the way it is now, I got a huge suprise when I read the 3E PHB for the first time to find my proficiency system being used.

 

If it is a better system than the old one, it will eventually be used. And the third edition skill system is MUCH better than that of previous incarnations.

 

I completely agree abou the skill system from 3E. The ability to increase skills is so key, I don't know why they left it out in 2E. Your PC obtained new NWP slots but never inproved their existing skills. I think the point system gives so much more freedom to the player and help to shape the RP process.