What are your opinions on the Forgotten Realms?

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Just curious. Do everyone like it? Or are there more souls like me out there, hating or disliking the whole, or parts of, Toril and its inhabitants/NPCs?

 

Well, I don't hate the Realms, but do tend to dislike that world. Its basic social/economic structure is pretty nonsensical, which I find annoying but livable. What I really can't stand is the religious system. Gods who are just really powerful mortals are something I just can't stand. Those two things ensure that it is definitely my least favorite published world.

aloha
Vormaerin

 

Without the realms, no really cool adventure games. How can we dislike it? Agree on the amateurish name though.

 

I doubt the Realms is what sells D&D computer games. If they had put the resources that FR got into Greyhawk or Krynn or some other such world, I'm sure cool computer games would have been made for them.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I love the Forgotten Realms.

If you dislike the realms so much, do you ever play games like Baldur's Gate 1 or 2?

 

Wow. Tal, that was a pretty harsh attack on Tolkein there. The Realms in many ways are exactly opposite of the rigorous academic approach to world building that created Middle Earth. The dominant role played by spellcasters in the Realms, the silly gods, the specious sociology, etc all contrast sharply with Tolkein. I'd say that I dislike the Realms precisely because I love Middle Earth.

I never really looked at the Planescape setting for PnP use. I mistakenly associated it with the spelljammer stuff until I picked up PST last year. My loss there, I suspect. There was some interesting ideas in the Dark Sun campaign, too. I'm not sure how well the whole thing went together though. It was advertised essentially as the "supermunchkin setting", so I never really looked at it closely.

The fantasy realm behind the "Empire of the Petal Throne" stuff is well done and original. That would be a fun world to play in.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

Vormaerin, I actually tried to run a campaign in the world of Tékumel (Empire of the Petal Throne), but man was it hard. In Middle-Earth, FR, Greyhawk etc all players know the basics of society, what creatures to expect and to fear and so on, but in Tékumel?

While it was very interesting to try something vastly different, it got too hard to run since everything had to be explained (usually several times). Encounters were really hard as the players knew nothing about the creatures or different races, and monsters like Chlén, Chnélh or Dnélhu just made them even more confused.

What I did instead was to take some of the world and populate it with Elves, Dwarves, "normal monsters" and so on (kept some of the original races as well). I also dropped most of the weird language for all playable races. This led to a great setting as the society and social values of Tékumel (or rather Tsolyánu) are really different and fun to play.

 

All the basic monsters and the races are from normal Dungeons and Dragons, so it's more like that's where the ripoff lies. Gygax deserves the credit for that, not Greenwood.

Don't anyone else besides me find the realms to be a bit overdeveloped?

 

I always liked Greyhawk...Moslty because that's what I grew up with and DM'd in...Gygax gave a great foundation with a very rich, ancient and magical history. You could take that and run with it!

When we played...Each of my friends took an area in Greyhawk that we liked, and tried to develop it, incorporating the modules when they fit. We would rotate DM'ing duties on a monthly basis...and when/if our party moved into an area that one of us was more familiar with.

 

Greyhawk is fun. Greyhawk doesn't have superheroes with sky high stats running around saving the day.

 

Is this the 3rd or 2nd edition FR that people dont like? Because IMO it has been vastly improved since 2nd ed. Mainly because Greenwood didnt have as much power over it as before (ie. the new co-authors have more to say than before). And his stupid "Elven Retreat" has been stopped as well. Man, i hated that part. I agree with Tal that he ripped a lot from Tolkien but luckily that has been cut down (not that i dont like Tolkien, but the only place his stuff shoud be used is Middle-Earth (i dont like the world that much and the Middle-Earth roleplaying system is bad IMO (the books are better than the world which is kinda bad)).
If you dont like the heroes of FR, the solution is simple: Dont use them!

 

I don't know too much about the 3ed FR, but I don't like the 2ed at all. It's a very simple (maybe primitive) fantasy world without any creativity and I don't like the FR books expect some of Salvatore's works. I agree with Tal and Vormarein: the most of the wolrd is a brainless copy of Tolkien's work. I will start a 3ed campaign on Midkemia next week (the world of R. E. Feist), there is creativity and innovation in that world. And Firestorm, the Middle-Earth roleplaying game has one of the worst systems I've ever seen...

 

Hey, Taluntain, its pretty obvious we agree here, but I was a bit confused by the "you can't dislike the Realms and like Tolkein" comment. Just because two dishes have the same ingredients doesn't mean you have to like them both.

Doomfarer, I agree that original worlds are more difficult (whether store bought like Tekumel or homebrewed). Not everyone is willing or interested in learning new stuff.

Silverblade, what makes a good CRPG and what makes a good PnP world are miles apart. The fact that the BG series has you travelling the Sword Coast and Amn instead of the Wild Coast and Keoland is irrelevant. Though Baldur's Gate is a better title than Verbobonc.

Firestorm, I haven't really looked at the FRCS or other 3e products for the FR. Maybe its better, but I doubt it. Too many of the basic premises of the world are a bad fit for my tastes.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I don't like FR or its book for that matter. Too pop for my tastes filled with superheroes.

I prefer greyhawk, or even dragonlance 4th age.

 

Tal: I never said Gygax created Forgotten Realms. I said he created DnD. There's a difference there, as you no doubt are aware of. The reason I mentioned Gygax was because you sort of labeled Greenwood as the one who copied the races and basic monsters from Tolkien, when those in fact are "core DnD", something Gygax, not Greenwood, created. Clear?

 

Yes, those races are "core" to D&D. They form the core of the Germano-Celtic mythology that Tolkein based his world one. So 'originality' isn't really something one can attribute to anyone on that topic. Tolkein's genius was in the way he rewrote those archetypes into a great story and great world.

Anyway, the elves of Oerth (Gygax's campaign world) are noticably less 'tolkeinish' than the elves of Greenwood's Realms. For whatever you think that's worth.

Aloha
Vormaerin