A Gathering of Battle Tactics

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I have just been recently looking up some guides on forums and reading a few stories of people going solo and party and i have read some impressive stories, and the people who wrote them certainly know their Baldurs Gate 2.
Anyway back onto the topic im getting at, i am reading these guides and most of them the players are playing in either normal or core, basically all of them, and i just realise that the strategies that they use would be most suitable for that difficulty setting. I think it is rather strange, yet good, that the difficulty setting really does make a big impact if you really think about it and actually play a game through on core or normal, then switch to something like insane.

I recently starting playing another game on insane and i realise that for each difficulty setting their are like specific tactics for that difficulty setting, and sadly im feeling the extremely harsh reality of insane difficulty.
Mind you i do play with several mods installed including all parts of tactics except for Improved Illyich, and all parts of Improved Battles mod, but just today i was reading this little story of this guy who attempts to do what i am doing, well at least very close with both of those mods, but i have noticed that the strategies he uses, and im not saying they are bad tactics, for they are very excellent indeed, but on insane he would definetly not far to well implying those same tactics. (for he was playing on core difficulty)

Long story short and yes i realise that i sort of dragged out the point i was trying to make, is that the difficulty really does have a large impact on the style of playing and that i am also finding some difficulties with the game i am doing, but i refuse to go down on difficulty.

That is all im going to say for now, i will post later when i not soo tired, and i will ask for advice on what i require, but in the meantime feel free to reply and tell me of the difficulty you play at and that do you find that the difficulty setting does make that amount of difference, and if so, what do you do to overcome it just in general?

[ August 03, 2004, 13:43: Message edited by: people person-i eat people ]

 

Whilie it is certainly true that enemies use different tactics in the Tactics Mod, I don't really notice much different in tactics due to a change in difficulty levels. In fact, the main difference I see is the increased damage on the higher difficulty levels (double I believe on Insane) means you have to pay more for your mistakes.

That having been said, the Tactics Mod WAAAAY ups the difficulty of the game. Improved Illych is off the charts hard. It is arguably not even fair at the point in the game where you encounter him, seeing as how you have, at best, 4 members in your party at the time you enounter him (PC, Imoen, Minsc and Jaheira).

The other thing I felt was off the charts in difficulty in the Tactics Mod was the battle with Firkraag. He even followed me up the stairs when I ran away from him. To make matters worse, since he can't "fit" in the corridor where you come up the stairs he instantly appears in the room where Tazok and Digdag were, which is not optimal placing. The whole idea of the retreat was to place him behind me. It was like some cheesy horror movie where the monster pops up in front of the fleeing group.

 

@ Aldeth

But then Tactics is just about giving a permission to cheat, to the computer.

 

I'm playing with Tactics installed for the first time and I must say that some of the battles are close to impossible to win whit out using cheese. For example the improved fight in Sahugian city, the fight for the cloak of cheese. I read the whole read me before even starting up the game so I were more than prepared. Buffed to the max whit stoneskins, chant, bless, miss lead, enrage and together whit my five sword spiders I engaged in combat.

Boom! The Spiders who just acted meat wall goes down whit a Death Spell.

Boom! The Avatar and the ranged Sahugians take out booth Minsc, Jan and Keldron in ONE round!

Boom! My Ironskined Avenger drinks a healing potion and starts running.. she didn't last long.

This was on insane but even on core rules the fight is damn close to impossible. I would like a mod that makes the enemy harder and more equal to me. But instead I get a mod that just switch the original positions, now I'm the pray and they're the hunters.

Between, included in the Tactics mod are some tips on some of the battles written by other players. When reading about the Sahugian City almost everyone recommends shooting fireballs and Cloud Kills (wand) when out of sight. Is this really what the mod is all about? Forcing players to use cheese even to stay alive?

I'm well aware that this post is out of topic but it's closely related to the first post

 

Upping the difficulty forces you to change tactics only if "tactics" means rushing the enemy and clobbering them. I've never played Improved Illych on insane difficulty, but if I did I would still divide and conquer in the same order I always use (Karamazov or sometimes Rasputin first, Illych, use Illych's gear on the golem, etc.). If you start getting hit by those guys, or if a few of them jump you at the same time, it doesn't really matter if they do "normal" or double damage--you're screwed
(BTW, "at best" you can have 5 characters when you face Illych&co.--you can bypass the library to get to Yoshimo).

Take a second example--shadow thieves. They are backstabbing lunatics with tactics installed. If you don't play it right, a series of x4 backstabs is just as bad as a series of x8.

Could you give us a specific example of where tactics appreciably change because of difficulty level (with tactics installed, that is)?

 

I play on Insane all the time, since I got bored in all other difficultys since I never died (whats the fun if you always know you will win the battle)

And insane isnt even that difficult in a full party... there should be something like Heart of Fury.

As for the different tactics part; I find it that in core and such I never use any special abilities, and I rarely use magic. But when I play insane (solo) I know that if I dont use all the powers I got, I might die.

Well, uh, I kinda forgot my main point here, but Ill be back... later

 

Just to clarify, are you saying you never died when playing the Improved Tactics mod? Or is this unmodded?

 

Here's something a bit off topic about the tactics mod, I never encounter shadow theives in the improved ilyich dungeon, I always encounted a duegar party member (strong mage) and a duegar something or other, a powerhouse with at least 150 HP. I tried it on all other difficulty levels and it hasn't changed, any ideas why anyone?

And to do with the subject, I found that double damage doesn't mean anything when you take 0 damage anyway... I only usually do insane while soloing a mage or sorcerer because nothing ever hits more often, just more powerfully, and I make sure nothing hits me.

 

If your speaking to me then: I dont have the improved Illyich mod, because there is an error every time I try to install it (this happends with some other mods too)

 

Bahir, you're saying that when playing booth on insane and whit the Tactics mod installed you didn't even die once?!

Sorry doubting you but several of the tactic fights are so hard that a couple of quick loads are necessary just to figure out a way to win. Then there's another bunch of quick loads to actually win the fight.

 

@ GodRules44: That's the way it is meant to be in the tactics mod--as per the suggestion of six of spades, I believe. I can see a few really good shadow thieves breaking through the improved defenses of the dungeon, but not hordes of them. Illych and company would gobble them up. So the mod replaced shadow thieves with duergar. Sometimes they pop up at the most irritating of times, too. The first time after defeating Improved Illych, and "knowing" I had cleared the level, I clicked my team to the opposite side of the map to leave the level, and got up for a drink. When I got back, my group was almost entirely wiped out by a randomly spawned duergar patrol.

 

MY two cents: the main difference between insane and core (or normal) is that when you play with fighters - they MUST me under Stoneskin, Ironskin on PFMW. The damage is too high. Greater Mummies, Golems, Dragons do so much damage per hit (50-70) that when a fighter is hit once or twice he needs to heal and cannot fight anymore. Jaheira and Haer'dalis are the only ones capable of that. (and Solaufein if you install him)

My main fun lately are no reloads games on insane with Tactics. If I die, it's game over. If NPC gets chunkified I get a replacement (or not).

Very challenging but doable.

 

Thank you to all the people who have expressed their opinions of what they think of the difficulty setting. I have already solved my own problem that i was going to ask you all, but i guess now its pointless, so this thread is sort of not-needed, but oh well, sorry to bother you, but you may still keep posting on this thread for i am introducing another question: For all you brilliant strategists out there i am asking you to tell me and others of your heroic battle efforts. Basically i want you to tell me the tactics you used for an important/hard battle you have done that you are quite proud of, and you may also make it into a small story.

If you do this though, please inform us of any mods you may have been using at the time, and character class and level and if you are going solo or not. Just trying to gather a bunch of different tactics for all sorts of fights, so to further mine and other people's Baldur's Gate knowledge.

[edit: i am also changing the thread title]

 

Personally, I consider Mods like Tactics as an excellent way for me to revel in powergaming.
I no longer care whether I use a cheesy strategy or not, as long as it gets the job done. Quickly. With as less fatalities as possible.

There is no harm in doing so since, as Wirhe put it, these battles no longer consider realism and D&D - only a bunch of monsters, a cheesy selection of items, spells and abilities, and a killer AI.

That being said, a good investment for going through Tactics on Insane would be a Skald, since his song drastically improves the effectiveness of your fighting characters.

[ August 04, 2004, 16:50: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

Scythesong, do you think about anything except bards?!