Multi class? worth it or not?

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i like playing bg2 and for that matter any game that is similar to dnd but my friends never get around to getting their shcedules worked out to play pen and paper dnd. so i'm stuck playing computer games that are like it. Games dont seem to have the level of diversity pin and paper does but one thing i can never seem to get over is not what my characte can do but rather what my charcter is. Here is my main problem i like being able to sneak but i also like being able to run into a room and hack things to bits. When i played never winter nights i wanted to make a theif who had unarmed skills so i could imagine myself snaping peoples necks by sneaing up behind them. in bg2 soa i made a half orc theif, sometimes assassin sometimes stalker cause it seems to fit the bill. however when i relize that i cant seem to hit a imp with my short sword or long sword i save, go into shadow keeper and edit my proficencies to have two wepon plus 3 and then when i go back in i get angry that i cant use my throwing daggers anymore without opening my inventory and uunequiping my offhanded weapon so i can use my dagger.

on a second topic for this, i find tieflings interesting but since you cant be them without edited game files in shadow keeper i find myself attracted to being a half elf more but are half elvs even worth the effort? the reson i end up hating being them is because of the way the stats system in bg2 works. a racial decrease take from yer negetive and a racial benifit increases the max of the stat. that makes no freakin since to me at all it should be the minimum for both.

 

This didn't really make a whole lot of sense, but I assume you want to be a Fighter/Thief. Yes, they are "worth it".

And please don't ever compare BG2 to NWN under any circumstances. Welcome to the Boards

 

ah. sry let me clean up m message here then. I dont like being human cause m life span is short ( btw do orc live forever if not killed? ) so i like making other races. I like being a theif, but even when i sit there for an hour rerolling my stats die and i finaly get stats like this : 18 for wis, str, dex. 11-12 for int. 3 for chr ( because of the ring you find your main char doesnt need to have high chr imo ) i get proficeny in two wepon or single and then shortsword or longsword and i run up to a imp and stat there for a hour never hitting it in melee.

What i dont understand is when i make a half orc figher theif he sucks when i start the game even if i give him proficeny in two weapon +3 and one in longsword or some other variation of the 4 to 6 points i get when making him. ( btw i have apacks installed this gives theifs the preivleg of being able to get plus 3 in two weaposn i think or did they always have that?) he take forever to land a hit on a non-smoke merphit or whatever them small winged beasts are.

BTW i would make a fight/ mage if there was armor toward the middle or even the start of the game that lets me cast spells while wearing. having to wait untill i get to the elven city and underdark parts of the game is annoying.

If i wanted to make a multi class fighet theif or for that matter any multi class char what are the best race and class combose?

P.s. the thing baout never winter nights was just me complaining about it not comparason.

 

At the top of the page is a Spell-Checker function. How lovely!
If you are gonna sit there for ages rerolling, might as well just cheat the ability scores in the first place.
There is probably some way to get a "spells while wearing" effect early in the game, but it's not crucial.

Also, it doesnt sound like you're using NPC's: For your first time(s) through the game they are absolutely crucial to your survival. Soloing IMHO is for people who
a) know every item location in the game
or
b) really hate Minsc.
They (NPC's) also add sidequests, romances, etc., etc.

 

spell check is evil! and its not my firest time through, infact i've quit half way through the game so many times that i know alot about the storys and items just from that. As much as i enjoy being evil its increadably difficult in this game imo. My party usually consists of Vicionia, Jan, the evil dwarv a the bar ( keldorn i and almost sure his name is ), edwin. With this group if i work at it i can have a slightly more challenging run through of the game. Between the city guyard attacking me cause of my reputation and vampire atks at night befor i get the sword that casts sunray in a bar.. ( btw why is it in that bar? ) they handle stuff farily well and i quicksave often enough to go back for everything anyway.

However my question wasnt that as confusing as my posts are. If i wantede to make any multiclass hero what would the race and what would the class(s) be, in your opinions what are the best combos and in fact what are the actual best combos in the long run (from start of soa through the end of tob)

 

From what you're saying, this isn't the game for you. You appear to be powergaming, but sadly, aren't very good at it. If you can't beat mephits, anyway. Heh.

 

First of all, multi-classed characters are the bomb, as they get to choose HLAs from both classes once they hit 3 million XP (1.5 million in each class). This fact alone is worth it to make a multi-class.

(By the way, the dwarf and the bar is Korgan. Keldorn is the paladin you find in the sewers. Also, in reference to your other questions, AFAIK, orcs and half-orcs have a similar lifespan to humans, unless they get themselves killed in some way.)

For multi-classed characters, the one you should be primarily interested in is the fighter-thief, based on your playing style. Fortunately for you, there are many different races that are good at being fighter-thieves. If you want to have better fighting skills, then I'd take a half-orc, since they can get a 19 in strength, meaning they will hit a whole lot more than a character with an 18. If you want better theif skills early on, then I'd recommend taking a halfling or an elf, as they can get a 19 in dexterity, which improves their thieving skills. Based on what you've said so far, I think that you would enjoy the half-orc fighter-thief more.

But the fun doesn't have to end there. There are a whole bunch of other multi-classes that work well. If you like having a healer who can fight, then try out a fighter/cleric, a ranger/cleric, or a fighter/druid. Of this list, the ranger/cleric is probably the most popular, as they get both cleric and druid spells.

Another popular class is the thief/mage. This one is a bit tricky to get good in melee combat though, so you may not like it. Fighter/mage also becomes powerful, but you have to be careful in melee early on as you won't have good armor in the beginning. I'd recommend memorizing stoneskin for all of your 4th level spells in the beginning. There are two other multi-classes that barely warrant mentioning. The cleric/mage, and the cleric/thief. Cleric/mages have a huge arsenal of spells, but lack the power to enter melee. Cleric/thief sounds really cool in the beginning, but I grew bored of this character very quickly.

 

I am playing a mage/thief now and it is quite the blast. Sure, it isnt a melee tank but that sorta figures. She excells at sneaking about though and the use of mislead is outright cheese but oh so funny. A whole slew of backstabs in a row. She is also a decent ranged fighter, I have stuck mostly to darts and daggers. The poisoned daggers you can buy off the fences are truly useful for such a small price.

 

thank you that is very helpful. on a note about the fight/theif half orc though if i made one what would be my best stratagy toward his proficencies? To be honest i cannot stand using long swords because it seems to me all the bg games force this idea that all the good magicaly enchanted weapons are longsword, and since i'm a fighter theif do i get a bonus in some what to daggers/darts/shortswords or anything that isnt listed in easily viewd places ( ie like if its flag in shadow keeper i wouldnt normaly see it ). Secondly is using two weapons at once better than using one single weapon or should i even bother with a single weapon and just get sword and sheild? ( proficency that is).

So here is my new question, if i wanted to make a fighter theif half orc, what proficencies are best for him to be really good at melee ( btw if your using two weapons do you backstab with both?).

Off topic-This is one of the few things i enjoyed about nwn you could put any weapons into your quick inventory slots and it made me feel like i could really be a theif cause i could have two weapons at once and then not havta go into my inventory and get my bow or throwing dagger(s), dart(s), crossbow out to fight things i may not want to be near.

Btw throwing daggers seem very cool to me but there doesnt seem to be any more beyond the boomerang dagger +2 that are good to be thrown, so should i even bother with getting a slot in daggers for throwing daggers?

 

I was disgusted by MC characters when I played a Cleric/Ranger... too powerful especially with the HLAs
There is no point in playing a game where there is no challenge left.

 

@ Korth -

There a many good weapons throughout SoA and ToB for fighter thieves. You really can't go wrong in assigning proficiencies, but obviously, you are going to want to choose weapons where you can backstab. That list includes (in approximate order of most to least damamge): katana, long sword, scimitar, short sword, quarterstaff, club, and dagger. Katanas are probably the most popular due to the high damage, but if you can't see a half-orc walking around with an oriental sword, grab a club. As a fighter-thief, you can choose any weapon to gain proficiency in, but you won't be able to backstab with non-thief weapons. You can equip a battle axe and use it just fine in melee, but you can't sneak up behind someone and backstab them with an axe.

There are no innate bonuses or automatic profiencies given for being a fighter thief. As far as I know, the only class that gets automatic proficiencies is the ranger class, who gets two proficiency points in two weapon style.

As far as fighting style is concerned, basically your options are single weapon or two weapon style. Do not spend any profociency points in sword and shield style, as this only gives you a bonus against missile weapons. Any character can pick up a shield and get the regular armor class bonus from it, so since the bonus only applies to incoming projectiles, it isn't worth it IMO. Two weapons obviously increase your damage potential, but there is merit in chosing single weapon as well. Single weapon proficiencies give you a bonus to AC (so it's like you have a shield even though you don't actually have one) and also gives you a critical hit on rolls of 19 or 20 instead of just 20.

You cannot backstab with two weapons simultaneously, although you will still swing with your second weapon every round. That hit only does normal damage though. Only the first swing counts for the backstab, and that's always your main-hand weapon. To answer where to place your proficiencies (powergaming answer), I'd say I would place two each in katanas, scimitars and two weapon style. I would then dual wield Celestial Fury in my main hand and Belm in my second hand. While Belm is only a +2 weapon, it gives you an extra attack with your main hand weapon, which is very, very, useful.

 

THe only reason people use two weapon style is because that is the easiest way to get 5 attacks...or as many attacks as possible. It is NOT the best way to go for a thief, or even a Fighter/Thief...especially early in the game.

If you are dualweilding, you will almost never get your backstabs in...mostly because your THAC0 will suck a**. I recommend single weapon style. SERIOUSLY...Two Weapon style is overrated. Unless your a Kensai.

Also, for proficiencies, I'll just set out the good weapons for each proficiency, and you take your pick. Keep in mind, I am recommending these with backstabbing as the main offensive tactic in mind.

Weapon Proficiency: Single Weapon style. (**)

Dagger:

Firetooth +3 (extra fire damage, also usable as a ranged attack)

Dagger of the Star +4/+5 (extra elemental damage, chance of casting invisibility on self automatically after hit)

Pixie Prick +3
Neb's Nasty Cutter +2(poison on hit I THINK)

Stiletto of the Demarchess +2 (sleep on hit).

Short Swords:

Kundane +2 (gives you an extra attack I think)

Arbane +2 (gives free action, can cast Haste)

Cutthroat +4 (very good weapon for backstabbing. HUGE boost for THAC0.)

Short Sword of the Mask +4/+5 (MOST powerful short sword in the game once upgraded...seriously. Get this.)

Long Swords: Many weapons here, but I can't name them all, just the REALLY good weapons.

Blackrazor (Chance to increase strenght, heal AND level drain the enemy...very good indeed. Pity you can only use it in ToB)

Angurvadal (Permanent negative plane protection, STR boosted to 22)

Katanas:

Hindo's Doom (great enchantment, can cast Greater Restoration. Gets better once upgraded...but not too good for a late game Katana.

Celestial Fury (BEST weapon in game for a thief, EVARR!! Seriously....stun on hit is very good, so is extra 20 lightning damage occasionally)

Scimitar: Very good proficiency.

Belm +2 (Extra attack, bad enchantment)

Kachiko's Wakizashi +3 (Drain's wisdom. Very 'meh' weapon, good early game weapon)

Spectral Brand +4/+5 (Best offensive scimitar in game.)

Short Bows: You have excellent dexterity as a thief...so might as well pick up this weapon proficiency early game as well. There are times when you will greatly appreciate the extra attack.

Tuigan's Short Bow +1(Great weapon early game...mildly useful late game as well, because of 3 (!!) attacks!

Short Bow of Gesen +4(Best damage for a shortbow)

Tansheron's Bow +3 (no need for arrows...useful)

Soo...there you are mate. Take your pick.

If I were you though, my character would have:

Single Weapon Proficiency: **
Short Swords: ** (Short Sword of the Mask +5)
Daggers: ** (Dagger of the Star +5)
Short Bows: ** (Gesen's Bow +4)

Oh, and I'd be playing an Assassin instead of Fighter/Thief. More fun that way.

 

wow thank you people this is really helping me. I've been playing bg2 soa and tob off and on and i've beaten them both with a sorcerer a long time ago but i edited him cause i didnt wanna develop him and just wanted to see the ends.

As far as what i would have i like that inventory for my wep and proficeny if i can find all these things i think i will go with it.

I dont know about being a assassin, being a fighter theif gives me some kinda str bonus cause when i give my guy 18 str it ads a /06 or 04 next to it but takes it away when i give him 19, that i dont understand but i assume its good, but it only happens for fighters or muliclassed fighters i think.

I prefer the stalker kit over the assassin kit honestly cause it seems to me that the poison weapon ability he gets is almost useless cause alot of the things i meat later in the game like mindflyers for example can do alot more dmg to me if i dont get that backstab in with my poisoned weapon. ( damn that int drain to hell!)

Also why not have long sword instead of shortsword proficency? you said it yourself faraaza that the celestial fury is a great weapon so why not use it instead of a shortsword? ( btw i do not entirely understand what thaco is but i assume it is your chance to hit or something. )

And seeing as how i hate going into my inventory to change my weapons does anyone know how i can give my character another weapon slot so i can have my sword, dagger, and bow? i have shadow keeper but it doesnt seem to give me that option or maybe i just dont see it?

 

The numbers in parentheses following the 18 stength represent an exceptional strength roll. As you said, only fighters, paladins, rangers, and barbarians can attain exceptional strength. The bigger the number in parentheses, the better, with 100 being the highest. Regardless of what the number is in parentheses though, 19 is higher than 18(xx).

 

There's a lot of good info in the manual, such as THAC0, Stats tables, spell progression tables, rep tables, etc.

THAC0 is an acronym for To Hit Armour Class 0.
It's your chance to hit someone with AC 0. If your base THAC0 is 10, then you have to roll a ten to hit someone with AC 0. Modifiers are put on top of that or taken off it according to someone's Armour Class. If they have a better AC, then you'll have to roll a higher dice, if they have less, you won't have to roll quite so high.

And you said you've played PnP before?

 

ah thanks for the details there. yeah i've played pnp before but i wasnt the dm and i really dont understand alot about the ruls all i know is when i am told to roll i certain die because something just happened i do it lol. i like pnp better cause me and my friend played a baldurs gate campaign after tob was over and i was a human theif, i had alot more fun being able to run around on the roofs of buildings and sneak in through peoples windows at night to kill them or sneak into their beds and poison their glasses of water or mugs of ale and ect. i really wish there was a game that centered around what race and what class and alignment your character was but baldurs gate doesnt change really depending on this as far as i can see.

My hopes were on fable to be honest but man was i disapointed with that freaking game. You cant even use sheilds the magic is stupid and the game is so boring that i actualy fell asleep while playing it once! There almost no diversity in thatr game and when they were talking about it at the e3 they said you dont even havta try and get venganc or go with the presented story line. But if you dont your stuck in the first parts of the game cause they dont let you walk to all places. jesus christ thta game was a waist of money.

To get back to my topic

Should i make a multi class half orc or just stay a true thief with stalker or assassin kit? arnt fight/theif better than normal theivs anyway? thers plenty of items out there that help with thieving anyhow.

And again plsssssss if anyone knows how i can give my character another weapon slot in his tolbar please tell be cause i hate only having two

 

If you are new to the game, I would definitely recommend using a Fighter/Thief multiclass...you will definitely have an easier time of it.

But...well...if you know your way around the game, playing an Assassin or a Stalker single classed character can be great fun as well.

Its upto you...but I usually find that my single classed assassin can make up for some of the shortcomings in single classed thieves compared to multiclassed Fighter/Thieves, to some extent.

For example:

Melee: Thieves only get one attack, while Fighter/Thieves can gain upto 4 attacks, maybe even 5...this IS the primary advantage Fighter/Thieves (henceforth referred to as F/T) have over Assassins. But this can be ameliorated to some extent.

Using Tuigan's Bow +1 while Poison Weapon is active, is perhaps the most common method to make up for quantity with quality. Thieves have excellent dexterity, so most of your 3 attacks per round will hit, and when they do, unless the creature is immune/resistant to poison, he will be taking a LOT of damage, over a period of time. The creature getting the "hit" animation over and over is very important as it allows you to use perfect ranged "hit n run" tactics.

Belm +2 gives you extra attacks, and if you dualweild Belm +2 with Kundane +2, or Scarlet Ninja To +3 (with UAI...can't backstab with it though), you still get 4 attacks!!

Also, most importantly, Assassins get a 7x backstab modifier...USE IT! With a single backstab you are doing 7 hits worth of damage!! Learning advanced backstab techniques, such as using the fog of war, corners, etc is essential to playing a good thief character.

---------------------------------------

Hitpoints: Thieves generally get much lesser hitpoints than Fighter/Thieves, but this is not so much of a problem, because, as mentioned before...use a Short Bow with Poison Weapon when faced with a crowd of enemies, and otherwise use backstabbing for encounters with lesser numbers of enemies...also mixtures of the two tactics as and when required by circumstances are useful.

--------------------------------

No Need for preparation: Well...this isnt exactly a shortcoming, in the sense that Fighters can get caught off-guard as much as Thieves. Atleast, they're not as bad as Blades who need to get 3-4 spells up to get a semblance of good power. Thieves, however, should ALWAYS be hiding...so in effect nothing can catch them by surprise. Secondly, Fighters just brawl their way through everything...but for the rare occasion your thief IS caught off guard...you should keep a Ring of Invisibility handy, until you can go around a corner and really Hide. The Cloak of Non detection takes care of things after that.

----------------------------------------------

So, as you can see...Fighter/Thieves arent really all that better than Assassins...except for the fact that multiclasses get HLAs from both their classes. Agreed, there is no way they can ever make up for not getting Greater Whirlwinds, Critical Strike, Smite, Greater Deathblow etc...HOWEVER, Assassins don't really need those to be powerful. They are meant to be played differently, because they are a different class.

Also, keep in mind, thieves get experience REALLY quickly, as compared to a multiclass, who levels up HALF as fast. So you will effectively be TWICE as powerful as a multiclass...if you go by numbers alone. I'd say that is a pretty cool advantage by itself. This is without HLAs in mind.

But as far as pure fun goes, Assassins are better than Fighter/Thieves in my opinion. Powergaming? F/T's win. Its upto you I suppose.

 

Thanks i think i'll make a half or assassin considering what you wrote about. However i just found a kit for shushi ninja so i'm instatll that and see what its like.

On another note though i havta ask if there is a way for me to make a tiefling assassin. Like i know how the bard tieflinfg you get in your party doesnt seem to have any special rolls or resistances unless i just dont see them. But if i wanted to make a tiefling assassin should i make a human assassin and then edit him in shadow keeper? ( Btw if i change a stat in shadow keeper does it auto change its corasponding materials? like saving throws and ect.)

 

Sorry to hijack the topic here but can you get backstab bonus's for dual wielding? I tried this will valygar but it said his sword was not suitable for backstabbing. Spear also did not work with him.

I was going to make a dual wielding assassin with shortswords or shortswords and sashmirs.

 

Valygar's sword not being able to backstab is a well known problem. That is because Valygar's Katana is only usable by Valygar...and hence, is unusable by all thieves. And you know what happens with weapons which are unusable by thieves...

Get the Baldurdash fix pack from SP's file section, I'm too lazy to link you right now. That should fix your problem.

Also...you do not get backstab bonus for dual-weilding. In fact...you can SUFFER!!

Well, that's mostly because dual-weilding automatically causes you to take pretty big hits in your THAC0, which means you will get an extra attack, but more often that not, you're going to be missing a LOT. I would recommend using single weapons while backstabbing. Because...at best, when you have 3 stars in two weapon style, you STILL get a -2 penalty to your off hand. So, its no big gain really.

@Korth: AFAIK, if you change your stats, you will automatically get the corresponding benefits/penalties. However, if you give your character a tiefling class with Shadowkeeper, it MIGHT wreck your game, because of any checks the game MIGHT make for your class and race, and then hang because your's is illegal. I recommend sticking to the in-game classes, because there really IS no benefit from being a Tiefling anyway.