Ok, so I read the "Guide to Blades"

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Wow. Downright nasty!

My question is this: I know they won't be as powerful, but how do Jesters, Pure Class Bards and Skalds do? Are they still pretty good options?

Second question: Since a Bard can't set traps, how do the HLA's of trap setting work (I've never experienced any thief HLA's, so I might need a better explanation than you would initially think)?

Thanks!

 

1) No, I don't think the other classes are as good options. Firstly, they do not get offensive and (more important in my opinion) Defensive spins. Offensive spin is only good early game when you don't have that much offensive hitting power. However, -10 to AC is good to go throughout the game...not to mention once you get the Ring of Free Action from Spellhold...hehehe...its like having really cool armor on! Just cast Improved Haste>Defensive Spin>[equip] Ring of Free Action...nasty!

Jester's song is only good early game. Once you hit the Underdark, its no good, because most enemies make their saves anyway, and so many of them are immune to confusion, or so many more are just able to see you when invisible, like demons, Kuo Toa, etc. Plus you have no offensive punch, and when you hit ToB and take the Improved Bard Song (as you SHOULD), your offensive song goes away.

Pure Bard gets nothing, no cool abilities, no cool song, no advantages. Nothing! Do not take him. There is no reason to do so, when you could take a kit.

Skald gets nothing a Blade wouldn't once he hits ToB. Again, Improved Bard Song gives you waaaaaay better bonuses than Skald's Song ever could. The extra Immunities are cool I suppose, but just get your cleric to cast them.

So, in taking a kit other than Blade, you lose a lot and gain nothing. Just take the Blade.
2) If you open up any Bard character in SK, once you have a trap HLA, you will notice that you have an automatic 100 in Set Traps skill.

So, when you get enough experience for HLAs, you just pick them from the menu like you would otherwise, and use them from your innate abilities tab like any other thief would. No hassles.

 

Actually, now that I've read it a few times, I think it's a bit too preachy.

They are, although they won't be as effective in melee.
The Jester's offensive song actually gets more powerful with levels - at some point you'll be able to incapacitate Dragons with it.
The vanilla Bard's song (also the Blade's initial song) is also quite powerful. It grants the luck effect, which makes you better at everything you do. (ie, +1 to all rolls). I haven't gotten around to testing it much but if my hunch is right, a party would probably be able to dish out whole windows of criticals when under its effects.

Very similar to normal traps. The main difference is that the HLA traps can do a fairly higher amount of damage.

EDIT: Whoa. Faraaz beat me to it. ;p

[ June 22, 2005, 06:23: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

Unless you want two blades, Haer'dalis is a very good blade as it is. He has low CON but lots of natrual resistences and can *specialise* in short swords and long swords which a normal blade can't..
Very nasty. So you probably could play him instead of your main char.

 

Not if you solo though...

Besides, Haer'Dalis doesn't use Scimitars.

Scimitars are THE only weapon of choice for Blades...as then, when dual-weilding Belm +2 with Scarlet Ninja To+3 post UAI...you get 4 attacks per round...8 with Improved Haste.

I wouldn't bother with any other weapon proficiency for Bards.

 

yeah, but in TOB you can't hit anything with these weapons...

 

Yes you can.

Only Demi-Lichs and the Ravager and Mages who cast Improved Mantle...

Besides, you get Spectral Brand +4, upgradeable to +5...for when you want to fight those particular "immune to +3 and less weapons" bosses.

Definitely not a problem.

 

What do you mean Haer'Dalis can't use scimitars ?

All he needs is *one* single proficiency point. By the time you can use Scarlet Ninja-To you will have *one* point to spare. And there are enough prof. points to spend you certainly don't have to stuck with spectral brand, which takes luck and most likely lots of reloads to obtain.

Besides, Kundane is a better sword than Belm since Haer'Dalis *specialise* in short swords. Kundane gives more thac0 and more damage and also has a hidden +1 per round.

Add that Haer'Dalis can also specialise in long swords, one of the most powerful weapon class in the game. He's simply the best blade in terms of using weapons.

[ June 22, 2005, 19:51: Message edited by: 14 ]

 

Wait... are yous saying HD can specialize in Long and Short Swords, but all ather Blades only get 1 point per weapon?

That doesn't make sense...

 

Yes, its one of those little NPC extras - rather like Minsc's ability to berserk...

 

Wow, so unless you plan on soloing, you can concievably have a better Blade in HD than the protagonist?

I guess with a protagonist, you can always roll better stats...

 

Honestly, I thought the bard kits were implemented somewhat stupidly, since improved bard song basically makes the skald useless in TOB and there are ITEMS you can buy that have the same effect as a jester (which makes the jester worthless).

 

Therefore making the Blade even better. Wow.

 

Not only that, Haer'Dalis also has natrual resistences.

25% to fire and lightening
50% to cold
15% to physical damages.

If you equip him with Jan's adventure ware + the flail sold at Copper Coronet, he'll have 60% physical res. And if you are lucky with the wish spell, you can get him "hardiness". So he is one of the very few chars that can "legally" immune to physical damages... So he can just stand in the middle of a hound of enermies, sing his lungs out and take zero damage. That, is what a true bard should be doing...

He does have a very poor CON and HP. And his "specialization" doesn't have the extra 1/2 attack.

[ June 23, 2005, 12:33: Message edited by: 14 ]

 

Umm, HD doesn't have natural resistances last time I checked... (although Bards can make themselves "legally" immune to physical damage via some other tactic).

The Bard is the jack-of-all trades. If he can simply summon images to sing for him, then there's no reason why he shouldn't wade in melee.
Don't confuse Skalds and Blades with court minstrels.

The Girdle of Fortitude effectively fixes this. Ditto the Bard's LVL 40 Tenser's Transformation.

Which is why he has Offensive Spin, which among other bonuses adds +1 to attacks per round and makes him do maximum damage per hit.

The fact that the Skald can take advantage of his song from the very beginning compensates for this. In any party of 5 or more characters, from SoA to ToB, the Skald will always find more use than a Blade (unless the latter just happens to be the protagonist).

Did I mention the Jester's song bypasses MR?
At higher levels, the penalty to save lowers (and finally goes away), additional effects are added (Sleep, ...) and enemies must make more saves per round.
No, there is no replacement for the Jester's song.

 

True...but it is VERY tempting to get that Improved Bard Song...mostly because its more reliable to make your party stronger, rather than your enemies weaker...which again depends, as certain types of enemies are immune to certain types of effects.

I mean...just cast 3-4 Mislead's...(scroll of Spell Trigger perhaps?)

@14: Mate...the reason I say you should get Scimitars is that you get the extra attacks.

Thats it! No other reason.

Haer'Dalis has a VERY annoying soundset, his banter is frankly crap, he has very low CON and I ABHOR micromanaging characters when playing a party. Selecting a character and making him attack an enemy is too much micromanaging for me! Which is why I solo all the time...which is why soloing a Blade is the best!

 

@Scythesong Immortal: now THIS is interesting... I only played a Jester once and it was in BG1 TuTu, no wonder I wasn't impressed by his song.
I have to try this out in ToB!

 

I have to say that Skalds are very good. It is a long time before you reach TOB and having the Skald's song all that time through SOA can make so many fights that much easier (even the +2 bonus in the early stages is great). Also, the Skald's +1 bonus is effective all the time so it is especially useful for a bard providing ranged support.

Don't get me wrong, I love Blades and frequently played them ... but I have also played Skalds and have been just as successful with them.

If you want a bard who can wade into melee choose a Blade, if you want a bard who gives great support and uses a bow then choose a Skald.

In my opinion, Haer'Dalis should have been a Skald as his CON/HP are poor even for a bard and he is generally used as a ranged support char.

 

It's too bad there's no Jongleur kit, that was my favorite one from the Bards Handbook.

After reading this guide, and now this thread, I'm looking forward to giving this kit a try!

 

Actually, I usually used HD as a melee support... cast a few spells, and when the tanks are in and getting the hits, come to their aid.

BTW, does offensive spin work with bows