The Ethics of Doorways and Large Golems

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So, I've been replaying BG2 with an Archer - my first experience relying on ranged weapons, as I typically use either a Man-O'-Steel Pally or a Sorcerer - and I've noticed that my NPC tanks really take a beating when facing the Adamantite Golems that appear in place of Iron Golems upon reaching a higher level. So, earlier today as I had my tanks fall back within range of my spellcasters, I noticed that the Adamantite Golem was too large to fit through a doorway. Charname and Imoen were firing arrows at the construct (from Gesen and the other magical-ammo shortbow) and doing a small amount of damage to the golem. At that time I realized, "Hey, that's a good way to kill the bastards so that Aerie won't have to cast 3 Raise Dead spells after the battle!" Anyway, I used that strategy on two or three of those gigantic golems, and then found myself wondering whether or not it was a "cheese" strategy.

Logically, a foe being attacked from an unreachable source would no longer expose itself to the enemy fire...but golems are magical constructs, noted for their power rather than intelligence. Still, wouldn't a golem be able to break the doorframe (and adjacent wall) separating it from the source of its exacerbation? I can't really answer that. So...is it me taking advantage of a bug or poor AI? Or is it just a good tactic for dealing with larger enemies? Your thoughts, please

 

I am of the opinion that taking advantage of the golem's size is not cheese. It is quite reasonable to assume that golems are not capable of complex 'programming' and will continue to 'attack' even when unable to reach the target. As for breaking the doorframe...when a perfectly interactive gaming world is developed, I'll be first in line to buy the game. If you must assuage guilt over this, buff up a tank and park him in front of the golem.

 

Its not your fault the golems too stupid to break the wall. Poor game AI thats all.

Golems are so overpowered that the use of such tactics would be natural in any setting.

If you thought that the golem should be able to break through a wall, he should also step on a flimsy bridge on fall to his doom in the Windspear dungeons.

And like Eric says, until a perfectly interactive RPG gaming world is developed, that poor golem will remain stuck. And you will remain alive.

 

Hehe, good. Thanks for your opinions. =)

 

Or alternatively you could download the tactics mod, which gives all golems a ranged attack(hurling a rock) which looks like a slingbullet being fired. This is also for the smaller varieties, so you can no longer trap the smaller ones behind the larger ones and kiil them off with long range and then take out the big mother. A great equaliser for the stupid unwieldly golems.

 

I have just played through the game with Tactics installed and there it was only the Stone Golems which tossed stones, horribly annoying stones as well. I think they do around 15-20 damage or something like that, a wee bit too much in my opinion. No problem with a ranged attack but the damage, and even thac0 is a bit too much, like much else in Tactics. I still recommend downloading it though.

 

Agreed, although you get the job done faster if you just cast Mirror Image + Stoneskin on one of your mages, then gangbang the golem who can keep whacking the mage all day if he wants.

 

Thanks for the suggestions on the Tactics mod...but I'm afraid I'll have to pass, due to the sheer insanity of some of its changes.

 

I almost always use this tactic. Just sensible, lol.
Same as chucking a cloudkill into a room full of enemies, then shutting the door.

 

If every golem was able to bust through any doorframe or wall, then the programers of the game would have to make each doorway or wall able to crumble when something big, like an Iron Golem, gets near it...that would probably lead to a lot of extra animation, which takes up space, and some of the player's computer might not be able to handle that much animation per area.

 

What type of enemies? Are they human? If so then you can ASSUME they would open the door or try to break it down.

 

But they don't, so I do it .

 

I don't think it's cheese. It would be cheese if you were doing this against an intelligent or at least a semi-intelligent creature. Golems don't qualify as either. My personal feeling is that the game programmers actually expected people to do this. I think it is far too coincidental that wherever you find those big type golems, there is a way to kill them from a distance. In addition to Firkraag's dungeon (in two places), they also appear in the Planar Sphere (in two places) and Suldenesselar.

 

I just think killing them from range is too slow. So I cast all the buff spells on my fighters while the golem is trapped at the end of the bridge/doorway and then attack him. And whenever someone gets too close to dying, I pull them back to get some healing while the others continue.

While it may not be realistic, it can't be cheese either. For if you call that cheese, then every time you block a golem / dragon / giant from reaching that mage or another fighter they're trying to run after, it's cheese as well. Afterall, just as a large golem might smash a wall, he can easily wade through a few fighters too. Realistically, you don't beat the dragon by standing on its way no matter what. You beat it by diving for cover when that claw, jaw or tail comes your way.

As for the cloudkill + close door tactic, I think it perfectly acceptable. Wether there were humans on the other side or not is of no significance. Obviously you will be holding the door closed yourself afterall.

 

I agree with Foradasthar--killing golems with ranged weapons is slowwwwwwwwww. Which is why, when I'm in a hurry, I use a lower resist spell trigger and nuke them.

 

Hehe, nothing in Baldur's Gate II seems slow after having played FFXI for a long time... a full party pulling out all the stops would take a good 2-5 minutes to kill one pathetic enemy -- there's a reason I quit that game. =P

 

Well I have always figured that if some silly wizard is dumb enough to basically do the equivelant of building a a boat in his basement then he has only himself to blame when the silly thing can't get out to go after my characters who are sitting there shooting at it.

Besides, in pencil and paper I wouldn't hesitate to exploit the terrain when going up against a giant sized opponent.

 

Although, in pencil and paper, the golem would break the wall down.

Personally, I've never had to use the block strategy to defeat golems, dragons, or any other large opponent. I'm going to go against the trend here and say that it is cheesy.

 

Ah, the dissenter has come. Care to explain your position, beyond the 'in p&p' comment? Because the DM in p&p would accidentally use his intelligence instead of the golem's in having the golem break down the wall, _if_ golems are considered as moronic as previous posts have claimed them.

 

it depends if the conjurer has the ability to directly control what they do, and can see that the wall is in the way of the golem? that would mean they could order it to 'break down that wall', which would require no independant thought from the golem.